Anybody want a Corona?

[4/5]

Yes, I understand. I just don’t happen to think our current administration is interested in perpetuating any of this once the pandemic’s under control.

And don’t worry - even if that is the master plan - this is all building up to Trump being elected again in a few years to wash it all away.

Well to me that's not a throwaway concern, that's a really major potential drawback to the mandates. In and of itself that's not a reason to not do them if they're going to save lives, but I think I'm more concerned than Bi when he says that they'll work because people have to eat. Idk. I think this risks tremendous social upheaval, riots, violence, etc. Sometimes my students will say something like "They can't suspend us all" in response to violating the idea of the day that school administration is pathetically trying to enforce. I worry that we're about to see that kind of thinking take over in response to these mandates and I don't think it's much of a leap to suggest that people who are being prevented from working over this might come together and start protesting and that it could get very ugly.

That wasn't really my point before, though. Yes, I'm worried about the future as I think we always should be whenever any government starts using a new power or using an old power in a new way, but that wasn't my focus either. My point is that while vax mandates may, and I say may because I'm not convinced that they will work, be necessary and I'm willing to admit that I don't think the people making these mandates are evil or view themselves as dystopian tyrants, I remain extremely uncomfortable with the idea of not allowing an adult to work if she won't get this vaccine. It is certainly possible that it is the least bad of bad options, in which case it's something that should probably be done, but it's not something to celebrate, and I don't think that people who come down on the other side of that are evil or stupid and I think the concerns with authoritarianism are real.

[Bammer]

I just don’t happen to think our current administration is interested in perpetuating any of this

History has shown us that once these things are done, they are very hard to undo.

Example: Look at giving women the right to vote.

[spike]

I said convincing

Masks forever it is.

[B]

there are plenty of other 'public health crises' out there this can bleed over into.

There are not, however, very many public health crises that have a simple, single-action solution.

I've never had a smoking problem, which is one that often comes up. I have to sign an attestation to get a break on my health insurance, but even that doesn't have a single solution. It's an illness and an addiction.

I HAVE struggled with my weight, and I'm sure that's next. How your weight affects your health is a factor of genetics, habits, and probably addiction as well. I can't walk into a Walgreens and walk out lighter.

When I lost my weight, I had to throw out food (expensive), rearrange my work schedule to exercise, spend money in a gym and for equipment, go to meetings every week (not free), convince my wife to eat the same way I eat and give up access to foods that she liked, eat out less, pack my lunch, write down everything I ate for years, get up earlier to allow for the exercise, change my evening habits so I wasn't bored, buy new foods, buy expensive packaged foods so I wouldn't resort to eating out, and I listened to so many people with problems I didn't have, unsupportive partners, angry mothers, no lunch breaks, no time for exercise, young kids who dictated diet, etc.

And you have to do that every day, all day, for the rest of your god damned life.

Makes me really unsympathetic to some guy who won't sit down for one second and get a shot in order to save their own fucking life.

But point being ... good luck bleeding mandates into other health issues.

[McParadigm]

I just don’t happen to think our current administration is interested in perpetuating any of this

History has shown us that once these things are done, they are very hard to undo.

Example: Look at giving women the right to vote.

You have a point. It has been incredibly, incredibly hard to undo giving women the right to vote.

[Bammer]

McP gets it

[McParadigm]

chud wasn't here to explain the joke. a hero was needed.

[Bi_3]

there are plenty of other 'public health crises' out there this can bleed over into.

There are not, however, very many public health crises that have a simple, single-action solution.

I've never had a smoking problem, which is one that often comes up. I have to sign an attestation to get a break on my health insurance, but even that doesn't have a single solution. It's an illness and an addiction.

I HAVE struggled with my weight, and I'm sure that's next. How your weight affects your health is a factor of genetics, habits, and probably addiction as well. I can't walk into a Walgreens and walk out lighter.

When I lost my weight, I had to throw out food (expensive), rearrange my work schedule to exercise, spend money in a gym and for equipment, go to meetings every week, convince my wife to eat the same way I eat and give up access to foods that she liked, eat out less, pack my lunch, get up earlier to allow for the exercise, change my evening habits so I was bored, buy new foods, buy expensive packaged foods so I wouldn't resort to eating out, and I listened to so many people with problems I didn't have, unsupportive partners, angry mothers, no lunch breaks, no time for exercise, young kids who dictated diet, etc.

And you have to do that every day, all day, for the rest of your god damned life.

Makes me really unsympathetic to some guy who won't sit down for one second and get a shot in order to save their own fucking life.

But point being ... good luck bleeding mandates into other health issues.

Lots of options though:

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/07/10346705 ... rnals-warn
https://www.apha.org/topics-and-issues/ ... clarations
https://examine.com/nutrition/inequality/
https://www.dcfpi.org/all/failure-to-in ... th-crisis/
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/ob ... mployment/


And let's think on what is possible: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... -emergency

[spike]

Yes, I understand. I just don’t happen to think our current administration is interested in perpetuating any of this once the pandemic’s under control.

And don’t worry - even if that is the master plan - this is all building up to Trump being elected again in a few years to wash it all away.

Well to me that's not a throwaway concern, that's a really major potential drawback to the mandates. In and of itself that's not a reason to not do them if they're going to save lives, but I think I'm more concerned than Bi when he says that they'll work because people have to eat. Idk. I think this risks tremendous social upheaval, riots, violence, etc. Sometimes my students will say something like "They can't suspend us all" in response to violating the idea of the day that school administration is pathetically trying to enforce. I worry that we're about to see that kind of thinking take over in response to these mandates and I don't think it's much of a leap to suggest that people who are being prevented from working over this might come together and start protesting and that it could get very ugly.

That wasn't really my point before, though. Yes, I'm worried about the future as I think we always should be whenever any government starts using a new power or using an old power in a new way, but that wasn't my focus either. My point is that while vax mandates may, and I say may because I'm not convinced that they will work, be necessary and I'm willing to admit that I don't think the people making these mandates are evil or view themselves as dystopian tyrants, I remain extremely uncomfortable with the idea of not allowing an adult to work if she won't get this vaccine. It is certainly possible that it is the least bad of bad options, in which case it's something that should probably be done, but it's not something to celebrate, and I don't think that people who come down on the other side of that are evil or stupid and I think the concerns with authoritarianism are real.

I’m not celebrating any of this, man. It all sucks.

[Green Habit]

It is certainly possible that [vaccine mandates] is the least bad of bad options

This is how I see it, except I don't see it as particularly bad. One or two jabs, maybe a third one depending on what's most reasonable with the boosters, each one taking a few minutes out of your day, and that's it. This is opposed to the true badness of non-pharmaceutical interventions. They are absolutely miserable, and should not exist at all by now if everyone got jabbed right when they could. I have been very angry recently that we're still going through with this bullshit because of this.

And I will totally cop to stating that this has long been my most authoritarian position, something that can be searched on this board long before this pandemic.

[B]

there are plenty of other 'public health crises' out there this can bleed over into.

There are not, however, very many public health crises that have a simple, single-action solution.

I've never had a smoking problem, which is one that often comes up. I have to sign an attestation to get a break on my health insurance, but even that doesn't have a single solution. It's an illness and an addiction.

I HAVE struggled with my weight, and I'm sure that's next. How your weight affects your health is a factor of genetics, habits, and probably addiction as well. I can't walk into a Walgreens and walk out lighter.

When I lost my weight, I had to throw out food (expensive), rearrange my work schedule to exercise, spend money in a gym and for equipment, go to meetings every week, convince my wife to eat the same way I eat and give up access to foods that she liked, eat out less, pack my lunch, get up earlier to allow for the exercise, change my evening habits so I was bored, buy new foods, buy expensive packaged foods so I wouldn't resort to eating out, and I listened to so many people with problems I didn't have, unsupportive partners, angry mothers, no lunch breaks, no time for exercise, young kids who dictated diet, etc.

And you have to do that every day, all day, for the rest of your god damned life.

Makes me really unsympathetic to some guy who won't sit down for one second and get a shot in order to save their own fucking life.

But point being ... good luck bleeding mandates into other health issues.

Lots of options though:

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/07/10346705 ... rnals-warn
https://www.apha.org/topics-and-issues/ ... clarations
https://examine.com/nutrition/inequality/
https://www.dcfpi.org/all/failure-to-in ... th-crisis/
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/ob ... mployment/


And let's think on what is possible: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... -emergency

All multi-factorial. Not one of those can be solved with a single, free, 15min action. All of them require many, huge, societal, system, on-going, impossible to even test solutions.

[spike]

It is certainly possible that [vaccine mandates] is the least bad of bad options

This is how I see it, except I don't see it as particularly bad. One or two jabs, maybe a third one depending on what's most reasonable with the boosters, each one taking a few minutes out of your day, and that's it. This is opposed to the true badness of non-pharmaceutical interventions. They are absolutely miserable, and should not exist at all by now if everyone got jabbed right when they could. I have been very angry recently that we're still going through with this bullshit because of this.

And I will totally cop to stating that this has long been my most authoritarian position, something that can be searched on this board long before this pandemic.

Yep, I have my issues/skepticism with authority too, but in the case of a vaccine mandate, at this point in the game… the logic of it outweighs any mild paranoia I may harbor toward governmental overreach.

[simple schoolboy]

It is certainly possible that [vaccine mandates] is the least bad of bad options

This is how I see it, except I don't see it as particularly bad. One or two jabs, maybe a third one depending on what's most reasonable with the boosters, each one taking a few minutes out of your day, and that's it. This is opposed to the true badness of non-pharmaceutical interventions. They are absolutely miserable, and should not exist at all by now if everyone got jabbed right when they could. I have been very angry recently that we're still going through with this bullshit because of this.

And I will totally cop to stating that this has long been my most authoritarian position, something that can be searched on this board long before this pandemic.

Dr. Walensky hates Green Habit.

[4/5]

Masks and boosters forever! Hooray!

[4/5]

Yep, I have my issues/skepticism with authority too, but in the case of a vaccine mandate, at this point in the game… the logic of it outweighs any mild paranoia I may harbor toward governmental overreach.

Well that’s good, that’s all I was really asking for lol. When I said “celebrating” before I should have probably said mocking the ppl calling mandates tyranny.

[oasisfan35]

It is certainly possible that [vaccine mandates] is the least bad of bad options

This is how I see it, except I don't see it as particularly bad. One or two jabs, maybe a third one depending on what's most reasonable with the boosters, each one taking a few minutes out of your day, and that's it. This is opposed to the true badness of non-pharmaceutical interventions. They are absolutely miserable, and should not exist at all by now if everyone got jabbed right when they could. I have been very angry recently that we're still going through with this bullshit because of this.

And I will totally cop to stating that this has long been my most authoritarian position, something that can be searched on this board long before this pandemic.

Dr. Walensky hates Green Habit.

Ya know, the way those little germ mongers spread every sickness imaginable this really is not a terrible idea.

[Green Habit]

Dr. Walensky hates Green Habit.

Believe me, the feeling is mutual. My oldest niece will also make her opinion crystal clear, as well, and it breaks my heart when she rants about it to me most of the times I see her.

Ya know, the way those little germ mongers spread every sickness imaginable this really is not a terrible idea.

But the flip side could be related to the old George Carlin joke about needing to swim in raw sewage in the Hudson River: if humans typically have more robust immune systems when they're kids, then would they need to get said system primed while they can hold it off better?

[simple schoolboy]

Dr. Walensky hates Green Habit.

Believe me, the feeling is mutual. My oldest niece will also make her opinion crystal clear, as well, and it breaks my heart when she rants about it to me most of the times I see her.

Is she a public school teacher by any chance? I can't figure out if this mask the 2 year olds thing comes from internalized hygeine theater or a desire to physically demonstrate the resentment they have for their students.

[oasisfan35]

Ya know, the way those little germ mongers spread every sickness imaginable this really is not a terrible idea.

But the flip side could be related to the old George Carlin joke about needing to swim in raw sewage in the Hudson River: if humans typically have more robust immune systems when they're kids, then would they need to get said system primed while they can hold it off better?

I remember that joke and always loved Carlin's humor having a base in some truth. Though my initial thought was in spreading their sicknesses to the family at home, where there may be more immunocompromised individuals and adults. This could obviously lead to missed work and medical complications or simply the sickness circle throughout the household. And those living paycheck to paycheck that decide not to call out of work and move the infections along.

I have not really looked at the arguments involving mask mandates and what real age groups we're talking here, my response (other than a poor attempt at humor) was more in line with having masks be socially acceptable wouldn't be a bad thing at all but I don't believe that is very likely.

[Bi_3]

You may want to sit down for this but apparently Fauci lied and did fund GoF research in Wuhan via EcoHealthAlliance exactly like the exhaustive amount of evidence suggested:

And what is Chinas response?

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5 ... r-to-covid