harmless wrote:Thing is, I wouldn't mind BoB's "sound" or aesthetics on the next one, as long as he was willing to take forward some of the more interesting aspects of this album. And I'm just not sure if he will; it seems as if he's desperate to make sure that something with "hit potential" stays on the tracklist. Which is OK, but he seems to think that "hit material" can be judged objectively, and that's dangerous territory. That's when you get formulas.
We may turn out to love it, but not a one of us will ever understand why a new song was dropped in favour of sleeping by myself. This didn't bother me initially but now I'm frustrated and baffled by it as a decision.
And he insisted on it?
Fuck that.
Yeah, he should never have told anyone he pushed it on there. That's gonna anger people. I'm hoping to like it. I find some comfort in the fact that the band weren't happy with Of The Earth. It's conceivable that they just couldn't find a structure for it and didn't think it was good enough as it was.
OTE is very clearly a ST song. My own indifference towards it aside, I really can't imagine it making a record other than a Lost Dogs II type thing.
harmless wrote:Also, pushing average tunes on an album while leaving good ones off is hardly a new problem for PJ. Binaural and Riot Act were both affected by frustrating tracking choices.
Pj have been snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since day one.
The only hint that surprises me is we as fans are still shocked by them doing so.
harmless wrote:Also, pushing average tunes on an album while leaving good ones off is hardly a new problem for PJ. Binaural and Riot Act were both affected by frustrating tracking choices.
Difference being that we used to be more likely to get the Bsides that were left off.
There's the dog. You can't fake that stuff. Confess with your mouth.
harmless wrote:Thing is, I wouldn't mind BoB's "sound" or aesthetics on the next one, as long as he was willing to take forward some of the more interesting aspects of this album. And I'm just not sure if he will; it seems as if he's desperate to make sure that something with "hit potential" stays on the tracklist. Which is OK, but he seems to think that "hit material" can be judged objectively, and that's dangerous territory. That's when you get formulas.
We may turn out to love it, but not a one of us will ever understand why a new song was dropped in favour of sleeping by myself. This didn't bother me initially but now I'm frustrated and baffled by it as a decision.
And he insisted on it?
Fuck that.
There were supposed to be 11 songs. SBM was merely added. That's what I gathered from the interviews/Q&As.
harmless wrote:Thing is, I wouldn't mind BoB's "sound" or aesthetics on the next one, as long as he was willing to take forward some of the more interesting aspects of this album. And I'm just not sure if he will; it seems as if he's desperate to make sure that something with "hit potential" stays on the tracklist. Which is OK, but he seems to think that "hit material" can be judged objectively, and that's dangerous territory. That's when you get formulas.
We may turn out to love it, but not a one of us will ever understand why a new song was dropped in favour of sleeping by myself. This didn't bother me initially but now I'm frustrated and baffled by it as a decision.
And he insisted on it?
Fuck that.
Yeah, he should never have told anyone he pushed it on there. That's gonna anger people. I'm hoping to like it. I find some comfort in the fact that the band weren't happy with Of The Earth. It's conceivable that they just couldn't find a structure for it and didn't think it was good enough as it was.
OTE is very clearly a ST song. My own indifference towards it aside, I really can't imagine it making a record other than a Lost Dogs II type thing.
Well yeah. What I mean is, though, thematically it would've been perfect on this album, considering how much planetary tree-hugging stuff there is on here. On the good side, I can't think of anything better to replace it (that I know of) and at least it was an addition to what was going to be an 11 track album. If it's horrible we can just treat it as a disposable bonus track.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:Also, pushing average tunes on an album while leaving good ones off is hardly a new problem for PJ. Binaural and Riot Act were both affected by frustrating tracking choices.
Difference being that we used to be more likely to get the Bsides that were left off.
Yeah, and that's more the frustration. PJ Inc. is more secretive and precious about that stuff than they used to be.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:Thing is, I wouldn't mind BoB's "sound" or aesthetics on the next one, as long as he was willing to take forward some of the more interesting aspects of this album. And I'm just not sure if he will; it seems as if he's desperate to make sure that something with "hit potential" stays on the tracklist. Which is OK, but he seems to think that "hit material" can be judged objectively, and that's dangerous territory. That's when you get formulas.
We may turn out to love it, but not a one of us will ever understand why a new song was dropped in favour of sleeping by myself. This didn't bother me initially but now I'm frustrated and baffled by it as a decision.
And he insisted on it?
Fuck that.
There were supposed to be 11 songs. SBM was merely added. That's what I gathered from the interviews/Q&As.
I hate being a naysayer but that sounded like either a bit of a cop out on BOBs behalf, or him bragging about how much influence and importance he has within the band and their decisions.
harmless wrote:Also, pushing average tunes on an album while leaving good ones off is hardly a new problem for PJ. Binaural and Riot Act were both affected by frustrating tracking choices.
Pj have been snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since day one.
The only hint that surprises me is we as fans are still shocked by them doing so.
Yup. But we've always equated "my happiness with the music" with PJ's happiness with being a band. Everyone does that with their favourite band. It is what it is. If you think something sucks you'll want to rationalise why.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:Thing is, I wouldn't mind BoB's "sound" or aesthetics on the next one, as long as he was willing to take forward some of the more interesting aspects of this album. And I'm just not sure if he will; it seems as if he's desperate to make sure that something with "hit potential" stays on the tracklist. Which is OK, but he seems to think that "hit material" can be judged objectively, and that's dangerous territory. That's when you get formulas.
We may turn out to love it, but not a one of us will ever understand why a new song was dropped in favour of sleeping by myself. This didn't bother me initially but now I'm frustrated and baffled by it as a decision.
And he insisted on it?
Fuck that.
There were supposed to be 11 songs. SBM was merely added. That's what I gathered from the interviews/Q&As.
I hate being a naysayer but that sounded like either a bit of a cop out on BOBs behalf, or him bragging about how much influence and importance he has within the band and their decisions.
Little from column A, little from column B
Yup. It doesn't really excuse it; it just makes him look like an idiot if the song is awful.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
I guess that which ever period you care most about (the beginning or the middle), at least we're all in the same boat. PJ were "classic" for several good albums. Now they're good here and there.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
It won't be awful, it's a good song that'll live or die on the arrangement and delivery.
Will it be a live staple?
Again, back to what I was saying about this songs being odd fits in a set list context.
Also, I don't think there are actual lyrics to OTE are there?
Certainly In Dublin ed seemed to be mumbling or winging it.
The title doesn't really mean the song will be about that.
harmless wrote:I guess that which ever period you care most about (the beginning or the middle), at least we're all in the same boat. PJ were "classic" for several good albums. Now they're good here and there.
There's at least one song on every Pearl Jam record that I really, really like...a lot.
dimejinky99 wrote:It won't be awful, it's a good song that'll live or die on the arrangement and delivery.
Will it be a live staple?
Again, back to what I was saying about this songs being odd fits in a set list context.
Also, I don't think there are actual lyrics to OTE are there?
Certainly In Dublin ed seemed to be mumbling or winging it.
The title doesn't really mean the song will be about that.
There were some sketchy lyrics I remember, yeah.
I still think a lot of the Lightning Bolt songs are more typically PJ than Backspacer was, but we don't have to agree. SBM is an exception, but it's no more an exception than "Soon Forget", and that's been played live a few times.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
I can see SBM taking over from just breath as a breather for the band.
And I guess im ok with that.
But certain songs like these can suck the life out of a gig completely. Seen it so many times with Pj. It's all tearing along and then derailed by just breathe
Yup. The issue is they have no concept of creating an acoustic context for the soft stuff. If they gradually slowed towards something like Just Breathe over the space of a few songs, it'd be OK. But they do stuff like sandwich "Just Breathe" in between "Last Exit" and "Animal."
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:I guess that which ever period you care most about (the beginning or the middle), at least we're all in the same boat. PJ were "classic" for several good albums. Now they're good here and there.
There's at least one song on every Pearl Jam record that I really, really like...a lot.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:Yup. The issue is they have no concept of creating an acoustic context for the soft stuff. If they gradually slowed towards something like Just Breathe over the space of a few songs, it'd be OK. But they do stuff like sandwich "Just Breathe" in between "Last Exit" and "Animal."
This could be seen as corny, but for that breather towards the second half or end of a set,
I think a little acoustic set could be great. It borders on cheesy almost falling into it, but I think the majority of the fans would be into it
harmless wrote:Yup. The issue is they have no concept of creating an acoustic context for the soft stuff. If they gradually slowed towards something like Just Breathe over the space of a few songs, it'd be OK. But they do stuff like sandwich "Just Breathe" in between "Last Exit" and "Animal."
This could be seen as corny, but for that breather towards the second half or end of a set,
I think a little acoustic set could be great. It borders on cheesy almost falling into it, but I think the majority of the fans would be into it
I'd prefer that to their usual jarring mix of genres. Benaroya Hall was perfect.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:Yup. The issue is they have no concept of creating an acoustic context for the soft stuff. If they gradually slowed towards something like Just Breathe over the space of a few songs, it'd be OK. But they do stuff like sandwich "Just Breathe" in between "Last Exit" and "Animal."
This could be seen as corny, but for that breather towards the second half or end of a set,
I think a little acoustic set could be great. It borders on cheesy almost falling into it, but I think the majority of the fans would be into it
I'd prefer that to their usual jarring mix of genres. Benaroya Hall was perfect.
I listened to that once. Got not even halfway through and turned it off. That's not what I go to Pj for. As a deep breath during a show, fine, as a whole set though? Not for me thanks
