Government Shutdown

[Norah]

Guys, the obstructionists aren't the political veterans.

[broken iris]

Guys, the obstructionists aren't the political veterans.

True, but putting party politics ahead of avoiding default risk is something the veterans are suppose to help prevent.

[Electromatic]

On a side note unrelated to internet memes, a lot of the federal groups I work with are just giving up at this point and planning on this lasting past the 17th.

I don't think the business leaders responsible for thier campaign funding are going to allow a default, but then again maybe everyone is resolved to losing thier office anyway.

This all said, a balanced budget amendment (or even a budget amendment) that required congress to have a budget passed by a certain date and the failure of which requred a conclaveesque sequester of congress until they pass such a budget would make sense.

All this is brought on by stupid ass continuing resolutions.

The best case of this would be to not restart without a budget. They should be going line item right now in a private session.

[simple schoolboy]

On a side note unrelated to internet memes, a lot of the federal groups I work with are just giving up at this point and planning on this lasting past the 17th.

I don't think the business leaders responsible for thier campaign funding are going to allow a default, but then again maybe everyone is resolved to losing thier office anyway.

This all said, a balanced budget amendment (or even a budget amendment) that required congress to have a budget passed by a certain date and the failure of which requred a conclaveesque sequester of congress until they pass such a budget would make sense.

All this is brought on by stupid ass continuing resolutions.

The best case of this would be to not restart without a budget. They should be going line item right now in a private session.

Writing a budget is hard. If all you do is pass continuing resolutions, you can just blame it on whoever wrote the last budget. How many years ago was that?

[McParadigm]

More like government shootdown, am I right guys???

[elliseamos]

"The script is still being written," said Mark Zandi of Moody's Analytics. "I don't see any evidence Obamacare is impacting the job market." N. Gregory Mankiw, a Harvard economist who worked in President George W. Bush's administration, agreed. Asked how much the Affordable Care Act had affected the economy so far, he said, "Probably not a whole lot." Zandi, a former economic advisor to the McCain/Palin campaign, struggles to understand Republican talking points about the law undermining the economy. "I'm not really sure what they're looking at when they say that," he said. "I'm perplexed."

[dimejinky99]

Is this block part of the Republicans agenda against universal healthcare, or health/insurance companies who fund them?

And can anyone explain to me wtf is the Republicans problem with everyone having access to affordable healthcare?
I don't live there and I'm not judging but even I know the US is not a country you want to be sick in or have an accident in.
Why is it like that and how did it come about?

If anyone has some recommended reading on the history of it all, I'd be grateful.

[dimejinky99]

Ps-I heard its based in some fear of communism but I'm not buying that. At all

[BurtReynolds]

.

[elliseamos]

the main reason conservatives/republicans don't want obamacare is because they don't want an expansion of social services. they already don't like the idea of using tax dollars to fund medicare, social security, welfare, and food stamps (among many other things that "redistribute" wealth), so they view a mandate for all americans to have insurance (either on their own or paid for by the government) as an overreach of the federal government.

how we got here?

Spoiler: show

Before 1920, doctors didn't know enough about diseases to really provide much useful care to sick people and therefore they didn't charge very much. Only a few big employers offered health insurance; everyone else paid out of their own pockets. Most patients were treated in their homes.

When doctors began learning more about diseases and effective treatments, they started charging more - more than most people could afford. They also needed to treat people in hospitals to take advantage of new medical technology, which further added to the costs. Couple that with the start of the Great Depression, and the situation was even worse.

The birth of a healthcare solution

To help ease the healthcare problem, Baylor Hospital in Dallas created a system - which eventually became Blue Cross - to help people pay their hospital bills. As science, medicine, and hospitals grew more sophisticated and more successful, more people turned to hospitals and doctors for care - and costs continued to rise. Blue Shield insurance for doctors' services started gaining ground in the late '30s as a way for doctors to protect their interests and their payments.

Competition and government intervention

The success of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield model encouraged other insurers to enter the healthcare market. And the shortage of labor during World War II encouraged employers to offer health insurance as an added benefit to the employment package. Soon it was a commonplace for employers to provide health insurance - and the government to provide tax incentives to do it. This happened at a time when many other countries were moving toward national health insurance - where the government pays for and regulates healthcare services.

The Blues turn course

In the early days, the "Blue" system - a nonprofit organization - charged everyone the same premium. However, when private, for-profit insurers entered the market, they charged premiums based on: Age, Gender, Health status, Pre-existing medical conditions

These private insurers ended up insuring the healthiest people and avoiding the sickest ones, which meant more profit for the company. The Blues had no choice but to follow their lead.

Interestingly, each time the subject of national health insurance was mentioned, it was soundly trounced, even though most other developing countries were heading that way. Doctors, through the American Medical Association, were able to stave off government control of health insurance.

Establishing the commercial health insurance system

From 1940 to 1960:

The supply of health insurance increased as commercial insurance companies entered the market
The use of healthcare increased as medical technology became more sophisticated
The government encouraged employers to offer health insurance as part of employee compensation packages

Union negotiations during the 1940's also reinforced the employment-based health insurance system. By the 1960s, it was clear the system of private health insurance in the United States was well established and in no danger of being dismantled. However, there were glaring problems. The poor, day laborers, workers for small companies that didn't provide insurance, the self-employed, and those who had no job also had no health insurance. And once workers retired from their jobs - usually at age 65 - they lost their health insurance and moved into old age without a healthcare safety net.

After John F. Kennedy was elected president in 1960, the climate toward national health insurance was somewhat more favorable. But the American government realized the only way to successfully enact government-sponsored healthcare was to start slowly; the elderly was a natural target segment.

Medicare and Medicaid History

The elderly and the poor were among the most medically needy in society and were the least likely to be covered by an employer's health insurance plan. To keep doctors from opposing a newly proposed legislation - which led to Medicare and Medicaid - legislators agreed that the government would reimburse doctors at their "usual, customary, and reasonable rate" for taking care of the elderly and the poor.

This means doctors stood to gain a great deal from Medicare. The bill was passed in 1965 and consisted of two parts:

Part A covered hospital services
Part B covered doctors' services

In addition to Medicare, Medicaid was enacted as a federal-state program to provide medical services for the indigent. Although both programs started small, expenditures in Medicare and Medicaid grew dramatically in the late 1960s as the programs began to gear up. Since then, Medicare has evolved into Original Medicare - provided by the government - and Medicare Advantage - provided by private insurance companies that contract with the government to provide this insurance to seniors.

By 2001, Medicare and Medicaid made up 32 percent of all healthcare expenditures in the United States.

[harmless]

Is this block part of the Republicans agenda against universal healthcare, or health/insurance companies who fund them?

And can anyone explain to me wtf is the Republicans problem with everyone having access to affordable healthcare?
I don't live there and I'm not judging but even I know the US is not a country you want to be sick in or have an accident in.
Why is it like that and how did it come about?

If anyone has some recommended reading on the history of it all, I'd be grateful.

Same. A lot of people who have a long-term disability and not enough money to pay for it are fucked in America.

[dimejinky99]

the main reason conservatives/republicans don't want obamacare is because they don't want an expansion of social services. they already don't like the idea of using tax dollars to fund medicare, social security, welfare, and food stamps (among many other things that "redistribute" wealth), so they view a mandate for all americans to have insurance (either on their own or paid for by the government) as an overreach of the federal government.

how we got here?

Spoiler: show

Before 1920, doctors didn't know enough about diseases to really provide much useful care to sick people and therefore they didn't charge very much. Only a few big employers offered health insurance; everyone else paid out of their own pockets. Most patients were treated in their homes.

When doctors began learning more about diseases and effective treatments, they started charging more - more than most people could afford. They also needed to treat people in hospitals to take advantage of new medical technology, which further added to the costs. Couple that with the start of the Great Depression, and the situation was even worse.

The birth of a healthcare solution

To help ease the healthcare problem, Baylor Hospital in Dallas created a system - which eventually became Blue Cross - to help people pay their hospital bills. As science, medicine, and hospitals grew more sophisticated and more successful, more people turned to hospitals and doctors for care - and costs continued to rise. Blue Shield insurance for doctors' services started gaining ground in the late '30s as a way for doctors to protect their interests and their payments.

Competition and government intervention

The success of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield model encouraged other insurers to enter the healthcare market. And the shortage of labor during World War II encouraged employers to offer health insurance as an added benefit to the employment package. Soon it was a commonplace for employers to provide health insurance - and the government to provide tax incentives to do it. This happened at a time when many other countries were moving toward national health insurance - where the government pays for and regulates healthcare services.

The Blues turn course

In the early days, the "Blue" system - a nonprofit organization - charged everyone the same premium. However, when private, for-profit insurers entered the market, they charged premiums based on: Age, Gender, Health status, Pre-existing medical conditions

These private insurers ended up insuring the healthiest people and avoiding the sickest ones, which meant more profit for the company. The Blues had no choice but to follow their lead.

Interestingly, each time the subject of national health insurance was mentioned, it was soundly trounced, even though most other developing countries were heading that way. Doctors, through the American Medical Association, were able to stave off government control of health insurance.

Establishing the commercial health insurance system

From 1940 to 1960:

The supply of health insurance increased as commercial insurance companies entered the market
The use of healthcare increased as medical technology became more sophisticated
The government encouraged employers to offer health insurance as part of employee compensation packages

Union negotiations during the 1940's also reinforced the employment-based health insurance system. By the 1960s, it was clear the system of private health insurance in the United States was well established and in no danger of being dismantled. However, there were glaring problems. The poor, day laborers, workers for small companies that didn't provide insurance, the self-employed, and those who had no job also had no health insurance. And once workers retired from their jobs - usually at age 65 - they lost their health insurance and moved into old age without a healthcare safety net.

After John F. Kennedy was elected president in 1960, the climate toward national health insurance was somewhat more favorable. But the American government realized the only way to successfully enact government-sponsored healthcare was to start slowly; the elderly was a natural target segment.

Medicare and Medicaid History

The elderly and the poor were among the most medically needy in society and were the least likely to be covered by an employer's health insurance plan. To keep doctors from opposing a newly proposed legislation - which led to Medicare and Medicaid - legislators agreed that the government would reimburse doctors at their "usual, customary, and reasonable rate" for taking care of the elderly and the poor.

This means doctors stood to gain a great deal from Medicare. The bill was passed in 1965 and consisted of two parts:

Part A covered hospital services
Part B covered doctors' services

In addition to Medicare, Medicaid was enacted as a federal-state program to provide medical services for the indigent. Although both programs started small, expenditures in Medicare and Medicaid grew dramatically in the late 1960s as the programs began to gear up. Since then, Medicare has evolved into Original Medicare - provided by the government - and Medicare Advantage - provided by private insurance companies that contract with the government to provide this insurance to seniors.

By 2001, Medicare and Medicaid made up 32 percent of all healthcare expenditures in the United States.

This was brilliant thank you.

Is it true congress approved a $2.5 billion spend in military contracts the same night this healthcare thing went up to the hill?

[broken iris]

Is it true congress approved a $2.5 billion spend in military contracts the same night this healthcare thing went up to the hill?

The defense budget is ~$675 Billion on the books. So, yeah, that's about a day's worth.

[dimejinky99]

Is it true congress approved a $2.5 billion spend in military contracts the same night this healthcare thing went up to the hill?

The defense budget is ~$675 Billion on the books. So, yeah, that's about a day's worth.

Fuck.

I saw a meme today. And true or not, it's pretty frightening

[simple schoolboy]

Is it true congress approved a $2.5 billion spend in military contracts the same night this healthcare thing went up to the hill?

The defense budget is ~$675 Billion on the books. So, yeah, that's about a day's worth.

Fuck.

I saw a meme today. And true or not, it's pretty frightening

Like all defense contracts, the primary purpose it serves is a make work project. Killing brown people is rather secondary to the ultimate goal of employing Americans. That's $80,000 worth of stimulus in the districts that manufacture components.

[elliseamos]

Is it true congress approved a $2.5 billion spend in military contracts the same night this healthcare thing went up to the hill?

The defense budget is ~$675 Billion on the books. So, yeah, that's about a day's worth.

Fuck.

I saw a meme today. And true or not, it's pretty frightening

Like all defense contracts, the primary purpose it serves is a make work project. Killing brown people is rather secondary to the ultimate goal of employing Americans. That's $80,000 worth of stimulus in the districts that manufacture components.

no sense trying to talk about shrinking government when we've got justified killing like this here post! U-S-A U-S-A

[simple schoolboy]

Is it true congress approved a $2.5 billion spend in military contracts the same night this healthcare thing went up to the hill?

The defense budget is ~$675 Billion on the books. So, yeah, that's about a day's worth.

Fuck.

I saw a meme today. And true or not, it's pretty frightening

Like all defense contracts, the primary purpose it serves is a make work project. Killing brown people is rather secondary to the ultimate goal of employing Americans. That's $80,000 worth of stimulus in the districts that manufacture components.

no sense trying to talk about shrinking government when we've got justified killing like this here post! U-S-A U-S-A

Mundane government functions such as say, passing a budget or the more obtuse reconciliation are rarely greeted by cheers of "U-S-A U-S-A".

[Rob]

Like all defense contracts, the primary purpose it serves is a make work project. Killing brown people is rather secondary to the ultimate goal of employing Americans. That's $80,000 worth of stimulus in the districts that manufacture components.

Sounds to me like corporate welfare.

[broken iris]

Comparing defense outlays with the ACA is a bit of a strawman. The cost issue with the ACA has more to do with the long term cost ($Trillions) versus any single year expenditure.


Projected growth in federal spending on medical costs:



This doesn't include state/local level costs, nor the impact on private costs due to an increase in the amount of low-reimbursement patients entering the pyramid scheme system.



BUT, it appears to me that this is a political showdown to embarrass Obama more than it is a fight about future costs. And the Republicans will lose this fight.

[elliseamos]

Is it true congress approved a $2.5 billion spend in military contracts the same night this healthcare thing went up to the hill?

The defense budget is ~$675 Billion on the books. So, yeah, that's about a day's worth.

Fuck.

I saw a meme today. And true or not, it's pretty frightening

Like all defense contracts, the primary purpose it serves is a make work project. Killing brown people is rather secondary to the ultimate goal of employing Americans. That's $80,000 worth of stimulus in the districts that manufacture components.

no sense trying to talk about shrinking government when we've got justified killing like this here post! U-S-A U-S-A

Mundane government functions, such as say, passing a budget or the more obtuse reconciliation, are rarely greeted by cheers of "U-S-A U-S-A".

1) i'm no teacher, but i'm pretty sure you need the edits i've added to make this grammatically correct.
2) so it's okay for tax payers to pay for, and be at, war ad infinitum as long as it keeps americans working?