Miley Cyrus/ Hannah Montana

[VinylGuy]

I hope to see a Sinead skit in SNL.

[BurtReynolds]

rank them by level of batshit insanity:



4. that other woman I dont know
3. Miley
2. Sinead
1. Billy Ray

[Jorge]

I think I understand what you mean, because I stopped reading the first letter when dj posted a link to it a couple days ago, and couldn't get past "this is written in the spirit of motherliness and love" which did come across as completely patronizing... (sorry, different spelling in the US!) - but the point seems to me to be valid in that this is deemed an acceptable way for a young, and I suppose talented, young artist to get ahead, change her image, whatever she's doing right now - I don't even know any of Miley Cyrus's music, so I have no idea what she's like at all- but from the angle that this is what's considered "feminist behavior" and as jorge says - she has 'agency' over her own body etc- this is what it feels like feminism is turning into, and (again, just my opinion, which I note because I doubt anyone will agree) it's largely because younger women have somehow missed the point about being feminist somewhere...

I don't have a problem with young women or women of any age having 'agency' over their bodies or their sexuality, I do however have a problem with the idea that this type of use of either isn't degrading or contributing to the gender inequality issues of the world.

there are better ways of using her sexuality, her femininity, her body and her brains along with her talent that won't allow the rest of the industry, or the world to take advantage of her inexperience.
I feel like that's O'Connor's point.

Makes total sense. My problem is with O'Connor's first letter, she is putting the bulk of the blame on a faceless group of bogeymen-- "they", meant to represent the record company executives or the patriarchy or what have you-- instead of confronting Cyrus on her own terms. This is what I refer to as ignoring her agency over her body. There's an implication there that Cyrus has no idea what is being done to her instead of being an active agent in it. There's a lot one can take issue with in regards to Miley Cyrus, I just think it's problematic to zero in on her body and lecture her in an incredibly paternalistic manner about it. Of course, Cyrus's response was ridiculous.

If anyone is the voice of reason in this whole ordeal, it's, surprisingly, Amanda Palmer. I think she nailed it with her own letter.

[VinylGuy]

ALL THOSE LETTERSSSSS

[harmless]

I kind of don't think it was any of Amanda Palmer's business.

[Jorge]

I kind of don't think it was any of Amanda Palmer's business.

Nothing is anybody's business.

[malice]

I just started reading that Amanda Palmer letter. I'm unfamiliar with her music (which is terrible since it's a Boston band) but I really appreciate her style.

[Sarah.]

I kind of don't think it was any of Amanda Palmer's business.

EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET IS AMANDA PALMERS BUSINESS.

But to be fair to her, she's not the only one who's stuck their oar in.

[Jorge]

her music (which is terrible

Yes

[malice]

I think I understand what you mean, because I stopped reading the first letter when dj posted a link to it a couple days ago, and couldn't get past "this is written in the spirit of motherliness and love" which did come across as completely patronizing... (sorry, different spelling in the US!) - but the point seems to me to be valid in that this is deemed an acceptable way for a young, and I suppose talented, young artist to get ahead, change her image, whatever she's doing right now - I don't even know any of Miley Cyrus's music, so I have no idea what she's like at all- but from the angle that this is what's considered "feminist behavior" and as jorge says - she has 'agency' over her own body etc- this is what it feels like feminism is turning into, and (again, just my opinion, which I note because I doubt anyone will agree) it's largely because younger women have somehow missed the point about being feminist somewhere...

I don't have a problem with young women or women of any age having 'agency' over their bodies or their sexuality, I do however have a problem with the idea that this type of use of either isn't degrading or contributing to the gender inequality issues of the world.

there are better ways of using her sexuality, her femininity, her body and her brains along with her talent that won't allow the rest of the industry, or the world to take advantage of her inexperience.
I feel like that's O'Connor's point.

Makes total sense. My problem is with O'Connor's first letter, she is putting the bulk of the blame on a faceless group of bogeymen-- "they", meant to represent the record company executives or the patriarchy or what have you-- instead of confronting Cyrus on her own terms. This is what I refer to as ignoring her agency over her body. There's an implication there that Cyrus has no idea what is being done to her instead of being an active agent in it. There's a lot one can take issue with in regards to Miley Cyrus, I just think it's problematic to zero in on her body and lecture her in an incredibly paternalistic manner about it. Of course, Cyrus's response was ridiculous.

If anyone is the voice of reason in this whole ordeal, it's, surprisingly, Amanda Palmer. I think she nailed it with her own letter.

I get that - I misunderstood before - and yes, I agree completely - address Cyrus as the person responsible for her own behavior.

[malice]

her music (which is terrible

Yes

dresden dolls is no good?

what kind of music is it?

[Jorge]

I like a handful of songs on their first album, but I'm not a fan of anything else I've heard from her. They seemed to be more of a live experience-- punk rock cabaret show and all.

[harmless]

I kind of don't think it was any of Amanda Palmer's business.

EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET IS AMANDA PALMERS BUSINESS.

But to be fair to her, she's not the only one who's stuck their oar in.

[harmless]

I kind of don't think it was any of Amanda Palmer's business.

Nothing is anybody's business.

Well yeah but we're not all writing open letters to Sinead Cyrus.

[Jorge]

I kind of don't think it was any of Amanda Palmer's business.

Nothing is anybody's business.

Well yeah but we're not all writing open letters to Sinead Cyrus.

Why not?

[Sarah.]

This could've got the feminism thread to its fourth or fifth page

[harmless]

I kind of don't think it was any of Amanda Palmer's business.

Nothing is anybody's business.

Well yeah but we're not all writing open letters to Sinead Cyrus.

Why not?

Because I'm drinking white wine and am approaching drunkenness. Also I have agency over my keyboard fingers.

[harmless]

This could've got the feminism thread to its fourth or fifth page

B, we need a merge!

[Jorge]

A good friend of mine, who is a gender and sociology student and a bit of a Social Justice Warrior, wrote this amazingly entertaining take-down of "sex-positive feminism". I'll find it and bump the thread.

[malice]

rank them by level of batshit insanity:



4. that other woman I dont know
3. Miley
2. Sinead
1. Billy Ray

also,

john
paul
george
ringo