2022-05-13: Oakland, CA

[tree_]

4/4 is the easiest, most natural thing. Anyone can tap along without thinking about it. That’s why it’s used so frequently.

you are proving my point about the superiority complex thing

"everyone like's songs in 4, only smart people like songs in 5 or 7!"

It doesn’t necessarily determine the enjoyability or quality of a song, but one is simply more difficult than the other.

[warehouse]

4/4 is the easiest, most natural thing. Anyone can tap along without thinking about it. That’s why it’s used so frequently.

you are proving my point about the superiority complex thing

"everyone like's songs in 4, only smart people like songs in 5 or 7!"

It doesn’t necessarily determine the enjoyability or quality of a song, but one is more difficult than the other. Simple as that.

i'm not even sure that's true. someone pointed out 'last exit' earlier. is that more difficult to play than 'severed hand'?

[spike]

Here’s the deal, guys. I can do a serviceable job playing most songs out there that are 4/4. Will I play to the level of the professional drummer that recorded the song? No. But I can get the band through the song.

That goes for 3/4 as well.

Next up would probably be 7/8. Or something in 6 (which is basically 3/4 repeated).

Other than that it takes a lot more practice and concentration to keep the beat throughout a song in weird time signatures.

Tree is partially right here.

[tree_]

4/4 is the easiest, most natural thing. Anyone can tap along without thinking about it. That’s why it’s used so frequently.

you are proving my point about the superiority complex thing

"everyone like's songs in 4, only smart people like songs in 5 or 7!"

It doesn’t necessarily determine the enjoyability or quality of a song, but one is more difficult than the other. Simple as that.

i'm not even sure that's true. someone pointed out 'last exit' earlier. is that more difficult to play than 'severed hand'?

As far as counting goes, just try tapping along to pyramid song by Radiohead. It’s slow so it shouldn’t be that difficult if it weren’t for the weird time signature

[tree_]

Yes, there could be an easier part in 5/4 than 4/4. But all else being equal, it’s simply less intuitive and more difficult

[warehouse]

Yes, there could be an easier part in 5/4 than 4/4. But all else being equal, it’s simply less intuitive and more difficult

and therefore, worse. good talk.

[wease]

4/4 is the easiest, most natural thing. Anyone can tap along without thinking about it. That’s why it’s used so frequently.

you are proving my point about the superiority complex thing

"everyone like's songs in 4, only smart people like songs in 5 or 7!"

It doesn’t necessarily determine the enjoyability or quality of a song, but one is more difficult than the other. Simple as that.

i'm not even sure that's true. someone pointed out 'last exit' earlier. is that more difficult to play than 'severed hand'?

Based solely on time signature, no. Not at all.

[wease]

4/4 is the easiest, most natural thing. Anyone can tap along without thinking about it. That’s why it’s used so frequently.

you are proving my point about the superiority complex thing

"everyone like's songs in 4, only smart people like songs in 5 or 7!"

It doesn’t necessarily determine the enjoyability or quality of a song, but one is more difficult than the other. Simple as that.

i'm not even sure that's true. someone pointed out 'last exit' earlier. is that more difficult to play than 'severed hand'?

As far as counting goes, just try tapping along to pyramid song by Radiohead. It’s slow so it shouldn’t be that difficult if it weren’t for the weird time signature

11/4. Not difficult at all

[Birds in Hell]

I don’t think looking at things on a linear scale where 4/4 is easy and 11/4 (for example) is difficult is very helpful.

There are immeasurable complexities and variables involved in playing a ‘simple’ 4/4 beat that are real and significant to the music being created.

[wease]

I don’t think looking at things on a linear scale where 4/4 is easy and 11/4 (for example) is difficult is very helpful.

There are immeasurable complexities and variables involved in playing a ‘simple’ 4/4 beat that are real and significant to the music being created.

Of course I agree with you. tree_ believes otherwise.

[Jorge]

This is what it comes down to and why he's wrong

Musicality is kinda irrelevant, subjective.

He doesn't have an ear for intricacies and nuances of playing, or why people praise a drummer for their groove or expressiveness. Just the relative "difficulty" based on mathematical complexity of a piece. He's not speaking the same language we are so the criteria's never going to line up

[wease]

This is what it comes down to and why he's wrong

Musicality is kinda irrelevant, subjective.

He doesn't have an ear for intricacies and nuances of playing, or why people praise a drummer for their groove or expressiveness. Just the relative "difficulty" based on mathematical complexity of a piece. He's not speaking the same language we are so the criteria's never going to line up

You’re a pretty smart fella, my friend.

[Jorge]

It's true. I am.

[tree_]

Thanks for the straw man Jorge. You’re better than this.

[Jorge]

It's true. I am.

[tree_]

When I said musicality is subjective, I meant if you’re playing correctly in time, it’s a matter of preference, and it’s irrelevant when judging the level of difficulty between different time signatures.

Of course there’s more to music than complexity and time signatures. That’s not at all what I was ever saying. I’m done with this silly discussion. If you think 4/4 is no easier to count and play along to than 28/5 there’s nothing I can say to change your mind. And frankly I don’t care anymore.

[Bammer]

If you know a song, you can bop along to it pretty much regardless of time signature but if you wanna sit down at a drum kit and effectively keep the beat, 28/5 is significantly harder than 4/4.

[Jorge]

Incidentally, this is what a strawman actually looks like:

If you think 4/4 is no easier to count and play along to than 28/5 there’s nothing I can say to change your mind.

[tree_]

You tell me what you think I was saying then, and why it’s wrong. Cause what you said before ain’t it

[Jorge]

You are reducing conversations of skill to difficulty, and flattening out the expressive possibilities of the instrument to simply keeping time. Musicality is what this whole conversation was always about, and the reason your "any drummer can do what Chad Smith does" claim is so risible