The Future of the GOP

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Mickey]

At this point I’ve got infinitely more ire for the Dems for their total lack of vision, strength, and messaging. “Hope” worked really well in the early aughts, and they were able to attach a litany of platforms and program ideas to that core message.

What happened next?

[Mickey]

Any serious accounting of the Democratic Party's lack of cohesive vision would have to go beyond the epiphenomenal experience of "outrage culture" or "purity tests" to grasp the real contradiction at the heart of the party.

[McParadigm]

At this point I’ve got infinitely more ire for the Dems for their total lack of vision, strength, and messaging.

Wrong thread, but I agree with this part and it is infuriating.

“Hope” worked really well in the early aughts...It seems that their one-word message now would be “outrage.” That’s a much harder idea to rally around, since it actively repels roughly 50% of the population

This part, I disagree with.

First of all, attributing outrage-baiting primarily to Democrats while Republicans spent the same basic time period outrage-baiting everything from M&M costume changes to Dr Seuss's estate to basic cultural diversity to books in school libraries to CRT to masks to Disney Corp to You Are Being Replaced etc is selective.

Second of all, the reason both parties are doing the outrage dance is that it works. Outrage has been a prevalent and effective political tool for decades, now. Just in this century, you see it in the reaction to 9/11, in the reaction to the reaction to 9/11, in the Tea Party movement, in the Benghazi hearings, in Trumpism, in the reaction to Trumpism, and so on. You see it in the last presidential election, where everybody was more outraged than they've ever been and both parties saw the biggest fundraising and GOTV success they've had in your entire life.

Neither party can let go of outrage at this point for the same reason one party can't unilaterally de-escalate gerrymandering: it creates an advantage. In a digital world outrage moves faster than anything. Heck, Jim Banks, who leads the House Republican election committee, titled his last memo on messaging "Lean Into the Culture War." Outrage sells.

The issue with Democrats is that they no longer have an "and then we" to add on to that. There's no follow-up, because they refuse to let go of an ancient leadership team who see themselves as "protecting the gains we made" rather than striving to do new things. They have no actual ambition to act, only to keep winning elections. So "VOTE" is the only message they have left.

Where Burt is consistently right is this: the Republican Party understands that America is in a state of epochal change right now, and is probably going to keep getting further and further away from the thing that it used to be. They recognize that the value of extreme action today is that you can shape tomorrow. The Democratic leadership is so busy arguing that earthquakes are short, actually, that it can't recognize the long term ramifications of the buildings falling down around it. They think they're "winning" by continuing to mimic old formalities. They're ghosts from the past, capable of haunting but not affecting.

Republicans, meanwhile, have an "and then." And the value of having an "and then" (even one made up of primarily unpopular things) is that you can find ways to advance it even as you aren't winning elections. And then your constituents have something besides outrage: they believe you are actually fighting for them. Bonus: moderate voters who oppose your "and then" will mostly not notice or forget about it, over time. There's, like, zero evidence of any real blowback risk to the thing Democrats are deathly scared of: acting.

[Mickey]

The issue with Democrats is that they no longer have an "and then we" to add on to that. There's no follow-up, because they refuse to let go of an ancient leadership team who see themselves as "protecting the gains we made" rather than striving to do new things.

I disagree that the only (or even primary) problem here is the leadership, but otherwise I think this is essentially correct, as is the rest of that excellent post.

[Simple Torture]

Where Burt is consistently right

I had fun imagining the steam coming out of McP's ears as he typed this part.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Bi_3]

The issue with Democrats is that they no longer have an "and then we" to add on to that. There's no follow-up, because they refuse to let go of an ancient leadership team who see themselves as "protecting the gains we made" rather than striving to do new things.

I disagree that the only (or even primary) problem here is the leadership, but otherwise I think this is essentially correct, as is the rest of that excellent post.

Nonsense. The democrats are now basically Joaquin Phoenix's character in Signs. They always strike out because they only swing for home runs. If you want proof of this look at the recent abortion bills vs Collins' bill. Or Romney's Family Security Act. Or Biden's sole major legislative accomplishment, the bi-partisan infrastructure bill. Progressives were literally crying because they even had to vote on it, despite it's widespread popularity and alignment with many of their goals. They are so reliant on ideological purity it caused them manifest physical pain to take a field goal to win. Like a spoiled child whining about getting a puppy and not a pony then blaming their stupid old parents (Joe and Kris) who just don't get it, #FML. It's bullshit and it's breaking everything.

Now before the equivocation and false choice blah-blah begins, I am by no means saying the Red crew doesn't do this to. Not at all. Around 40 of the 50 R senators are lost causes, and outside winning the vote are unworthy of their roles in society. Write them off now. But you don't need those 40 to get your agenda passed if you build it brick by brick over time like every other change in the history of everything. That next brick is your "and then we".

[Mickey]

Sorry, no, wrong direction.

[BurtReynolds]

Lots of moving parts here. Lots of ins and outs. Lots of subtleties. Lots of nuance.

[elliseamos]

Pull up your pants, Burt.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Watch out for Dark MAGA:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasre ... b7154ac1fa

[Bi_3]

Sorry, no, wrong direction.

[Mickey]

You don't seem to be able to grasp that I am just fundamentally not talking about whatever it is you're talking about:

Any serious accounting of the Democratic Party's lack of cohesive vision would have to go beyond the epiphenomenal experience of "outrage culture" or "purity tests" to grasp the real contradiction at the heart of the party.

[wease]

Watch out for Dark MAGA:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasre ... b7154ac1fa

So, they’re fully embracing the sinister, evil side now. Nothing named “dark” is ever benevolent. The dark ages. Dark web. Dark money. Dark chocolate. Dark side of the Force. Dark Lord of the Sith.

[Self]

Dark Side of the Moon?

[doug rr]

ibanez dark iris...

[Self]

It's a SF470, Dougray. Show some respect.

[doug rr]

hey justin

[Self]

how ya been pal? keepin an eye on lenny for me?