America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

Like you said you were going to step away for a while yesterday?

I did

The reality is Spike can't do it. He will follow me around the board provoking me until the end of time. I can stop. He can't.

My observation has been that you guys provoke each other. I don't understand why, but out of respect for the other users of the forum who actually want to discuss things it would be nice to see it stop. I'm sure you both have much better ways to spend your time.

[verb_to_trust]

I totally agree. Let's see how this plays out.

[spike]

I really though ST had vanquished verb yesterday. That was an obliteration.

[Stickman]

Can't wait to hear what Trump and others say in their speeches at the NRA conference today.

Guns are banned at his speech. Can't understand why, they're all good guys with guns right?

Right?

[B]

Only the criminals will have guns, so ... that's like the whole audience?

[McParadigm]

I don't really want to get into it (bc it's so far off track from a meaningful conversation)... BUT...

To those saying it's why we need guns:

How does an overthrow of the the tyrannical government happen?

Best guess: you storm and occupy government buildings, disrupt local supply and traffic, and take regional civilian leaders hostage because you think that will stop big civilian leaders from approving indiscriminate retaliatory violence.

Then someone pops you like a balloon from a thousand miles away, and everyone you ever loved moves on without you.

[Biff Pocoroba]

“Good guy with a gun” is a fallacy unless it’s a law enforcement official with a gun.
FBI’s statistics show that a non law enforcement officer with a gun successfully ended 3% of mass shooter situations between 2000-2013. With a non law official with a gun is around there is more likely to have higher casualties (killed or injured) as more shots fired, the good guy with a gun is killed or injured by the shooter, or the good guy is mistaken as the shooter by law enforcement.
Plus the “good guy with a gun” would have to armed and ready for the shooter situation to be effective.

[Bi_3]

I don't really want to get into it (bc it's so far off track from a meaningful conversation)... BUT...

To those saying it's why we need guns:

How does an overthrow of the the tyrannical government happen?

Best guess: you storm and occupy government buildings, disrupt local supply and traffic, and take regional civilian leaders hostage because you think that will stop big civilian leaders from approving indiscriminate retaliatory violence.

Then someone pops you like a balloon from a thousand miles away, and everyone you ever loved moves on without you.

Sounds a lot like the pro-abortion protests planned for the second week in June

[Bi_3]

Plenty of blame to go around for both.

Yes. I think you ended up being largely correct about "dereliction of duty" in this case. It's almost like Benny Hill levels of fuck ups across the board.

[Stickman]

hadn't seen this until today

[epilogue]

Like you said you were going to step away for a while yesterday?

I did

The reality is Spike can't do it. He will follow me around the board provoking me until the end of time. I can stop. He can't.

That's so fucking rich coming from you.

[macphisto]

“Good guy with a gun” is a fallacy unless it’s a law enforcement official with a gun.
FBI’s statistics show that a non law enforcement officer with a gun successfully ended 3% of mass shooter situations between 2000-2013. With a non law official with a gun is around there is more likely to have higher casualties (killed or injured) as more shots fired, the good guy with a gun is killed or injured by the shooter, or the good guy is mistaken as the shooter by law enforcement.
Plus the “good guy with a gun” would have to armed and ready for the shooter situation to be effective.

Would you rather those 3%, if that number is correct, not be ended until the shithead runs out of ammo/victims or the police finally get around to making entry?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherlan ... g#Shooting

According to investigators, the shooting was captured on a camera set up at the back of the church to record regular services for uploading online. The footage shows Kelley methodically shooting the victims, pausing only to reload his rifle.

Kelley was then confronted by and traded fire with Stephen Willeford, a local resident and former NRA firearms instructor who was armed with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. Willeford had taken cover behind a truck across the street from the church and shot Kelley twice, once in the leg and once in the upper left torso under his tactical gear. Kelley, who had dropped his rifle during the initial firefight with Willeford, fired back with a handgun before fleeing in his Ford Expedition. Willeford fired one more round as Kelley sped north on FM 539.

Good guy with a gun ended the Sutherland Springs shooting, and with an AR-15 no less.

[Biff Pocoroba]

A former firearms instructor is not your typical citizen though. As a firearms instructor he was obviously well trained and familiar with firearms.

[washing machine]

As a few of you know, I work very close to the convention center where the NRA convention is at this very moment underway. It's been an emotional day obviously. Our bar is collecting donations for the official Robb School Memorial Fund hosted by the bank of Uvalde, so we're giving every customer who walks through the door an opportunity to add a donation on their tab. We've had NRA attendees and protestors alike come through, but it hasn't been that busy yet. Probably later this afternoon and evening it will be busier.

From what I've observed, both sides at the convention are carrying about the same amount of emotional energy as the last twenty or thirty pages of this thread. Just judging by direct conversations with customers and fly-on-the-wall eavesdropping.

This is to be expected of course, but it's interesting to me how both sides are thinking that our bar is politicizing something, instead of just accepting the fact that we are collecting a donation for families of victims. We are not supporting anti-gun legislation, but the protestors think we are and praise us. We are not supporting gun control, though the NRA members think we are and scoff. We are simply giving people a chance to help other people who need it.

I don't know the solution, but that is the fucking problem.

[macphisto]

A former firearms instructor is not your typical citizen though. As a firearms instructor he was obviously well trained and familiar with firearms.

A lot of firearms instructors can't shoot for shit. He was trained by the evil NRA no less.

[elliseamos]

Thanks for the perspective, wm.

Crickets on my previous question (other than McP). No surprise there.

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

Yeah this discussion has returned to circle jerk status. I’m out.

And good on you for what you’re doing Reid. Thank you.

[verb_to_trust]

I really though ST had vanquished verb yesterday. That was an obliteration.

See? He can't do it

[macphisto]

[washing machine]

Thanks for the perspective, wm.

Crickets on my previous question (other than McP). No surprise there.

I thought your proposal a few pages ago was common sense baby steps, fwiw. It was a good read.

I support the second amendment but lament the gun fetish that seems to be so prevalent in the NRA. Here in Texas I hear some otherwise normal guys get giddy talking about what a certain type of bullet or magazine is capable of and I shudder. Mostly I'm just sad that school aged children and regular citizens are increasingly scared to do normal things. I realize that probably sounds inconsistent with my increasingly conservative leanings, but it really shouldn't be. People should care about other people full stop. I've witnessed two shootings near my bar in the last 8 months. I'm all for personal property rights but it feels like something's got to give.