Transgender Rights

[Ms Harmless]

when people say "most people are fine so it's not worth...", what they really mean is "I'm fine, so I won't budge"

[simple schoolboy]

If there were a harm, then by all means, claim your civil rights. I am not convinced there is a harm here.

I don't know if women as a whole will be down with the cause to the extent you expect them to. I expect a propagation of single occupancy restrooms with the attendant plausible deniability that it has anything to do with this.

[Mickey]

Single occupancy restrooms are objectively better. Less of other people's poop stink.

[Ms Harmless]

If there were a harm, then by all means, claim your civil rights. I am not convinced there is a harm here.

of course you're not, is this supposed to surprise me?

[simple schoolboy]

Single occupancy restrooms are objectively better. Less of other people's poop stink.

We are going to waste so much square footage with ADA compliance and changing tables.

[Mickey]

Single occupancy restrooms are objectively better. Less of other people's poop stink.

We are going to waste so much square footage with ADA compliance and changing tables.

Won't someone please think of the square footage.

[Ms Harmless]

as far as "women" (you mean cis women) being in support of what I'm saying and alongside our fight for justice, that's already (thankfully) most of them, and increasing all the time

[Ms Harmless]

you think what you want, but I think I've done pretty well to keep my cool in this thread for the last couple of days, and the least you can do is keep "I'm not convinced there is a harm here" to yourself when I've explicitly said "there is a harm here" *and* described something of what it looks and feels like

[B]

Bathroom Bills got big in 2015-2016. How many cis women used a bathroom in complete ignorance that there was a transwoman in the stall next to them in the decade prior? Billions?

People are fucking stupid.

[Ello Sailor]

People are fucking stupid.

Petition to replace N&D with this announcement.

[Ms Harmless]

exactly; cis people have *always* shared bathrooms with trans people and would never have known until trans people became the trendy media bogeyman for no reason at all (and they still don't know in individual cases, some are just full of imaginary terror); it might not affect you which bathroom you use, and that's great, but trans women being able to use a bathroom appropriate to our gender is a matter of safety, just as it is for all women

[Ello Sailor]

Boogeyfolx*

[Ello Sailor]

A bogeyman is someone who isn't particularly good at golf.

[Bi_3]

exactly; cis people have *always* shared bathrooms with trans people and would never have known until trans people became the trendy media bogeyman for no reason at all; it might not affect you which bathroom you use, and that's great, but trans women being able to use a bathroom appropriate to our gender is a matter of safety, just as it is for all women

I don't know what it's like on that side of ocean, but over here the "trans issue" battle isn't really about trans folks. It's a proxy for a much larger social conflict over how to manage a rapidly changing society in the face of the actual decline of western civilization.

[Mickey]

Dawg you're like so close to being a Marxist it's unreal.

[Mickey]

What if, in fact, all these cultural battles were actually epiphenomenal? WHAT THEN?

[Ms Harmless]

"the decline of western civilisation" is quite a burden to carry on our shoulders for trans people who just want to exist in public without being harassed at best, murdered at worst

people who were told they were the instruments of societal decline:

Black and non-white people
Jews
Muslims
Gay people
Disabled people
Women and trans people

the list goes on

maybe the decline of a civilisation that demonises and eradicates the social "other" de jour across the centuries is to be welcomed

[Ms Harmless]

I'm not a "minority" in my ordinary social circle but I am in here; it's hard

[Rob]

I think I speak for everyone when I say that we all, regardless of background, can't stand CIS white males (liberals).

I am one (I think?) and I can’t stand us. But no one ever answers Bammer’s original question. These days its Lia Thomas but it’s always that (probably rare) event where a trans person who is now female dominates a sporting event. I feel like not acknowledging this isn’t good. I don’t think people really care about which bathroom people use, and I’d bet most people will call you what you want. But we all know the male body is bigger and stronger. Why can’t people at the very least admit it’s a gray area?

well using bammer as your base model im not sure bigger and stronger than females applies here

Seriously, though… no one wants to acknowledge that occasionally (I don’t know how often) there is a Lia Thomas. It wasn’t really about her - it was another instance where a trans woman dominated and then we all see the picture of the 3 others standing a few feet away. They didn’t seem to feel it was fair.

Maybe most of the time it doesn’t matter, I don’t doubt that. This is obviously a controversial issue though. There’s a lot of people out there who felt the 2nd place swimmer was at a disadvantage. What’s the counter to that, in a way that respects what the person is feeling?

[Bammer]

I think I speak for everyone when I say that we all, regardless of background, can't stand CIS white males (liberals).

I am one (I think?) and I can’t stand us. But no one ever answers Bammer’s original question. These days its Lia Thomas but it’s always that (probably rare) event where a trans person who is now female dominates a sporting event. I feel like not acknowledging this isn’t good. I don’t think people really care about which bathroom people use, and I’d bet most people will call you what you want. But we all know the male body is bigger and stronger. Why can’t people at the very least admit it’s a gray area?

well using bammer as your base model im not sure bigger and stronger than females applies here

Seriously, though… no one wants to acknowledge that occasionally (I don’t know how often) there is a Lia Thomas. It wasn’t really about her - it was another instance where a trans woman dominated and then we all see the picture of the 3 others standing a few feet away. They didn’t seem to feel it was fair.

Maybe most of the time it doesn’t matter, I don’t doubt that. This is obviously a controversial issue though. There’s a lot of people out there who felt the 2nd place swimmer was at a disadvantage. What’s the counter to that, in a way that respects what the person is feeling?

Jerry with a sick burn here by the way, which was totally overlooked.