Transgender Rights

[Bi_3]

anyway you've gone from "why don't you believe that I support you?" to "not sure about this one" whenever I speak in a few weeks, so that's cool

I can support your right to a happy and safe life while simultaneously pointing out this particular point is likely “corrected history” and untrue

[B]

I'm hoping to visit my partner out in North Carolina next year, and I'm fearing that by then it will be illegal (not just unsafe, it's already unsafe) to travel in my normal, every day clothes, let alone exist as myself for two weeks while I'm there

What area?

Butner

Borderlands. Tough call. That county was a sundown community for a long, long time.

[Bi_3]

did we figure out why drag shows are connected to trans rights?

they get lumped in together because it is members of one sex dressing up like another and people assume that is all what transgenders are, pretending to be. while from what i have seen transgenders dont just pretend but live their life as the sex opposite they were born with (i am sure i mangled that last part so forgiveness in advance)

Do you think it might be the pivot from drag as an element of counter-culture towards the "middle aged men in lingerie spend time with your kids" thing that did it? I don't recall anyone giving two shits about this topic until 'drag queen story hour' events starting popping up everywhere. Now don't get me wrong, these constitute speech and thus are perfectly fine, but it seems to have been taken to another level and made into social signalling of trans support for proggle parents and an implied declaration of hate for those who oppose kids being exposed to them, so it's not surprising that there would be an aggressive backlash against it. TLDR: Much like many of the broader trans issues, take the kids out of it and no one cares.

[B]

Lingerie.

[Bi_3]

We can both play that game if you want, but what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

[McParadigm]

what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

“This optional attendance library event has failed to stand up to a benefits analysis from a middle aged man who spends his Saturday on a Pearl Jam message board, and has subsequently been deemed an insidious act of culture war. 3:30 at the Prairie West Branch.”

[Bi_3]

what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

“This optional attendance library event has failed to stand up to a benefits analysis from a middle aged man who spends his Saturday on a Pearl Jam message board, and has subsequently been deemed an insidious act of culture war. 3:30 at the Prairie West Branch.”

So... none then?

[Ms Harmless]

I'm hoping to visit my partner out in North Carolina next year, and I'm fearing that by then it will be illegal (not just unsafe, it's already unsafe) to travel in my normal, every day clothes, let alone exist as myself for two weeks while I'm there

What area?

Butner

Borderlands. Tough call. That county was a sundown community for a long, long time.

yeah, it's not ideal! luckily I'll be staying with them and won't have to be alone in accommodation

[Coach]

Please tell me your height and weight.

[McParadigm]

what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

“This optional attendance library event has failed to stand up to a benefits analysis from a middle aged man who spends his Saturday on a Pearl Jam message board, and has subsequently been deemed an insidious act of culture war. 3:30 at the Prairie West Branch.”

So... none then?

I truly believe that ”what is the benefit of this fun and optional social event, which may or may not include reading books to children” is a question no adult ever poses about anything.

Not unless they are driven to it by a personal intolerance so deeply held that they can’t even see what a fool they are making of themselves.

[Ms Harmless]

leaflet linestring

[Bi_3]

what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

“This optional attendance library event has failed to stand up to a benefits analysis from a middle aged man who spends his Saturday on a Pearl Jam message board, and has subsequently been deemed an insidious act of culture war. 3:30 at the Prairie West Branch.”

So... none then?

I truly believe that ”what is the benefit of this fun and optional social event, which may or may not include reading books to children” is a question no adult ever poses about anything.

Not unless they are driven to it by a personal intolerance so deeply held that they can’t even see what a fool they are making of themselves.

So if it’s optional with no benefits, why keep having them if they are putting kids at risk of violence from protesters and defenders?



Edit: why is this wrong?

[bart]

leaflet linestring

I’m sure he’s just trying to protect his kids from having the Little Red Caboose read to them by a man in a wig and a cardigan

[Bi_3]

leaflet linestring

I’m sure he’s just trying to protect his kids from having the Little Red Caboose read to them by a man in a wig and a cardigan

That certainly gives these scumbags leverage, so why is it so important to both sides?

[Ms Harmless]

leaflet linestring

I’m sure he’s just trying to protect his kids from having the Little Red Caboose read to them by a man in a wig and a cardigan

That certainly gives these scumbags leverage, so why is it so important to both sides?

I'm not blaming drag queens for attacks against trans people, they are simply being used as an easy distraction; a lot of people feel there is "no benefit" to drag queens, and a lot of the same people feel trans people are just men in dresses; lawmakers have an easy job of lumping us all together and getting the masses to agree we can all be got rid of

[Ms Harmless]

the benefit of drag queens reading to kids is, fundamentally, the same as people of any marginalised group reading to kids; kids get to experience different kinds of people, learn that people who look different, dress different, etc. are good, normal people; this will help kids to grow up without the bigotry of their parents / the previous generation

more specifically, having drag queens read stories to children teaches children that it is OK to wear clothes that they like, clothes that they find cool or beautiful, without restraint

it sows seeds for children who may be questioning their gender or their gender presentation, in a safe and non-judgmental environment

and it does all of those things, also, for kids questioning their romantic orientation (I could say "sexual orientation" but it's really important that people realise that LGBTQ+ people aren't just NSFW, we're real people, we were kids, and we're parents); not all drag queens are gay but a significant portion of them obviously are, and that's a good thing; again, some of those kids will have homophobic dads and meeting a drag queen at school might be a lifeline of a memory for them

I think anyone who says any of this isn't necessary has just never found a need for it themselves, and what we should be doing is saying "how can we make life for our kids better, kinder, more accepting, and safer for them than it was for us when we were kids?"

[Ms Harmless]

there are a lot of beautiful things in life we do because we love them, that aren't "necessary"

let's make it safer for kids to explore beautiful and artful and fun things, without being threatened with violence

[Bi_3]

the benefit of drag queens reading to kids is, fundamentally, the same as people of any marginalised group reading to kids; kids get to experience different kinds of people, learn that people who look different, dress different, etc. are good, normal people; this will help kids to grow up without the bigotry of their parents / the previous generation

more specifically, having drag queens read stories to children teaches children that it is OK to wear clothes that they like, clothes that they find cool or beautiful, without restraint

it sows seeds for children who may be questioning their gender or their gender presentation, in a safe and non-judgmental environment

and it does all of those things, also, for kids questioning their romantic orientation (I could say "sexual orientation" but it's really important that people realise that LGBTQ+ people aren't just NSFW, we're real people, we were kids, and we're parents); not all drag queens are gay but a significant portion of them obviously are, and that's a good thing; again, some of those kids will have homophobic dads and meeting a drag queen at school might be a lifeline of a memory for them

I think anyone who says any of this isn't necessary has just never found a need for it themselves, and what we should be doing is saying "how can we make life for our kids better, kinder, more accepting, and safer for them than it was for us when we were kids?"

Thanks, I really do appreciate this perspective

[B]

We can both play that game if you want, but what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

No we can't, because when you dig up the outlier picture of a drag queen in some actual lingerie reading books to kids, I'll ask why none of the laws proposed by bigots are written to eliminate events for children by people wearing only undergarments.

These events signal that people who dress extravagantly, differently, and/or as a gender other than their own are as harmless as a beloved librarian and are as important to the community as any other member. That's all the value I need from an event.

[B]

I'm hoping to visit my partner out in North Carolina next year, and I'm fearing that by then it will be illegal (not just unsafe, it's already unsafe) to travel in my normal, every day clothes, let alone exist as myself for two weeks while I'm there

What area?

Butner

Borderlands. Tough call. That county was a sundown community for a long, long time.

yeah, it's not ideal! luckily I'll be staying with them and won't have to be alone in accommodation

It's weird how the world works. You'll be staying in the community that was lynching Black people into the 50s, but you're also 20 minutes away from one the hottest LGBT+ scenes in North Carolina.