Transgender Rights

[B]

We can both play that game if you want, but what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

No we can't, because when you dig up the outlier picture of a drag queen in some actual lingerie reading books to kids, I'll ask why none of the laws proposed by bigots are written to eliminate events for children by people wearing only undergarments.

These events signal that people who dress extravagantly, differently, and/or as a gender other than their own are as harmless as a beloved librarian and are as important to the community as any other member. That's all the value I need from an event.

Public decency laws already exist to reduce children's exposure to adult behaviors.

You got a little jargony there, but this sentence kid of ends the debate. "Child protection" in this debate is just code for bigotry.

[Ms Harmless]

I'm hoping to visit my partner out in North Carolina next year, and I'm fearing that by then it will be illegal (not just unsafe, it's already unsafe) to travel in my normal, every day clothes, let alone exist as myself for two weeks while I'm there

What area?

Butner

Borderlands. Tough call. That county was a sundown community for a long, long time.

yeah, it's not ideal! luckily I'll be staying with them and won't have to be alone in accommodation

It's weird how the world works. You'll be staying in the community that was lynching Black people into the 50s, but you're also 20 minutes away from one the hottest LGBT+ scenes in North Carolina.

oh really? they haven't mentioned that, is that still in Creedmoor?

I was talking about Durham.

oh, cool

[Ms Harmless]

We can both play that game if you want, but what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

No we can't, because when you dig up the outlier picture of a drag queen in some actual lingerie reading books to kids, I'll ask why none of the laws proposed by bigots are written to eliminate events for children by people wearing only undergarments.

These events signal that people who dress extravagantly, differently, and/or as a gender other than their own are as harmless as a beloved librarian and are as important to the community as any other member. That's all the value I need from an event.

Public decency laws already exist to reduce children's exposure to adult behaviors.

You got a little jargony there, but this sentence kid of ends the debate. "Child protection" in this debate is just code for bigotry.

yeah

show me on the doll where cross-dressing is "adult behaviour"

[Ms Harmless]

it's really important that "drag queen" is defined slightly differently in different contexts

what they have in common is that a person is cross-dressing, not that anything "adult" is happening

[Bi_3]

We can both play that game if you want, but what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

No we can't, because when you dig up the outlier picture of a drag queen in some actual lingerie reading books to kids, I'll ask why none of the laws proposed by bigots are written to eliminate events for children by people wearing only undergarments.

These events signal that people who dress extravagantly, differently, and/or as a gender other than their own are as harmless as a beloved librarian and are as important to the community as any other member. That's all the value I need from an event.

Public decency laws already exist to reduce children's exposure to adult behaviors.

You got a little jargony there, but this sentence kid of ends the debate. "Child protection" in this debate is just code for bigotry.

The people passing these laws don't care if you think they are bigots because they think parents who attend them are glamourizing cross-dressing as a part of grooming children for social transition. The harder this gets pushed on, the more they will believe it, the more likely anti-abortion style violence will occur.

yeah

show me on the doll where cross-dressing is "adult behaviour"

So this is what you don't seem to grasp... a sizable majority believes it is adult behavior and the history of drag queen shows in the 'before times' (i.e. 2013) backs this up. Just because the community has moved on doesn't mean they get to suddenly redefine it for everyone else.

[Ms Harmless]

"a sizeable majority believes it is adult behaviour"

irrelevant: a sizeable majority believes I am a man, and a sizeable majority believes Pearl Jam were always shit

"drag queen shows" have historically included pantomimes, in which a pantomime dame -- a man dressed as a woman, traditionally -- entertains children; I've seen nobody going after and wanting to end pantomimes

let's be honest, you know nothing about the history of drag

"the community" was never defined as an "adult entertainment community" by anyone but Conservative bigots; it *includes* adult entertainers, just as any community does

nobody is doing anything "adult" at Drag Queen Story Time

[Ms Harmless]

I have no interest in your appreciation of my "perspective", leave it out

[B]

We can both play that game if you want, but what benefit other than signaling is derived from these events?

No we can't, because when you dig up the outlier picture of a drag queen in some actual lingerie reading books to kids, I'll ask why none of the laws proposed by bigots are written to eliminate events for children by people wearing only undergarments.

These events signal that people who dress extravagantly, differently, and/or as a gender other than their own are as harmless as a beloved librarian and are as important to the community as any other member. That's all the value I need from an event.

Public decency laws already exist to reduce children's exposure to adult behaviors.

You got a little jargony there, but this sentence kid of ends the debate. "Child protection" in this debate is just code for bigotry.

The people passing these laws don't care if you think they are bigots because they think parents who attend them are glamourizing cross-dressing as a part of grooming children for social transition. The harder this gets pushed on, the more they will believe it, the more likely anti-abortion style violence will occur.

So, if we let them ban trans people from society, they'll stop banning trans people from society.

I'm not saying you're wrong.

I'm just not going to stand for it.

[Ms Harmless]

it doesn't matter what they think, it matters what's right

unless you think it too, and I think that's where we've arrived

[Mickey]

"a sizeable majority believes it is adult behaviour"

irrelevant: a sizeable majority believes I am a man, and a sizeable majority believes Pearl Jam were always shit

There's just no way the bolded part is true.

[Bammer]

It may not be morally corrupt and it’s certainly not worth violent protests, but if you just take a step back and think about it you really do have to admit that drag queens reading to little kids is weird.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[spike]

if you just take a step back and think about it you really do have to admit that frats are weird.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Bammer]

if you just take a step back and think about it you really do have to admit that frats are weird.

No argument here

[Bi_3]

Does anyone’s calculus change if it’s not drag queens in garish makeup reading to your kids, but rather just normal transgender people dressed in everyday attire?

I don’t really have an opinion on any of this, am just asking the question.

Very fair question. That's why i mentioned the Native American story hour, a long oppressed group that also deserves to be separated from stereotypes, particularly with children. But no one would make a big deal out of that or show up, at least not anywhere near what these have.

[B]

Does anyone’s calculus change if it’s not drag queens in garish makeup reading to your kids, but rather just normal transgender people dressed in everyday attire?

I don’t really have an opinion on any of this, am just asking the question.

I don't believe any of the laws specifically cite that, but I'd be shocked beyond belief if someone didn't quickly start accusing a transgender person of performing in the wrong clothes.

[Bi_3]

In case folks don't know why these are controversial (this is 'family friendly' drag show, not DQ story hour):

[Bammer]

Tough to tell what was going on at the very end but if she was being told she can’t keep the money (which is kinda what it looks like), this is actually pretty good/realistic job prep training for when she does become a stripper in 12 years.

[Ms Harmless]

"a sizeable majority believes it is adult behaviour"

irrelevant: a sizeable majority believes I am a man, and a sizeable majority believes Pearl Jam were always shit

There's just no way the bolded part is true.

oh hi Mickey