benton netty wrote:Why is it so hip to constantly be dumping on O'Brien? The dude didn't demand his name be printed big in the liner notes.
Also, where's his credit for the good songs? People dump on him for "Future Days," but was he not in the studio for "Getaway" or "Pendulum"?
Also, he produced the band's best work, so...perhaps the blame for the bad shit lies mostly with the band. They're the ones who allow everything to happen. If they trust the bad ideas of their producer, that's their own fault.
Let's not forget "In Hiding" has fucking piano all over it.
For example, Release is a 5-star song. How can any song on LB be a 5-star song when compared to that? Ya gotta grade your PJ on a curve, people!
how can any song from Binaural or Riot Act be 5 stars compared to that?
Even within the 5 star range there's lots of room.
I don't know if any songs on here will be 5 stars. But quite a few will come close.
not really.. 5/5 = essentially a perfect song that you have zero complaints about, of which that hasn't happened for a decade with me
I do grade that way. When it's 5 stars, it's in the top echelon of songs for me. I don't have complaints with those songs because they do everything I wanted them to. Yet, there will always be favourites. Songs rated 5 stars which I play more than other songs rated 5 stars.
benton netty wrote:Why is it so hip to constantly be dumping on O'Brien? The dude didn't demand his name be printed big in the liner notes.
Also, where's his credit for the good songs? People dump on him for "Future Days," but was he not in the studio for "Getaway" or "Pendulum"?
Also, he produced the band's best work, so...perhaps the blame for the bad shit lies mostly with the band. They're the ones who allow everything to happen. If they trust the bad ideas of their producer, that's their own fault.
Let's not forget "In Hiding" has fucking piano all over it.
New PJ albums always tend to rank falsely high for me at first just because "OH MY GOD NEW PEARL JAM THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER!!!!!!" then after a while I calm down and remember that Yield and Vs. will forever be champions. The fact that LB is the first time this hasn't happened tells me something.
benton netty wrote:Why is it so hip to constantly be dumping on O'Brien? The dude didn't demand his name be printed big in the liner notes.
Also, where's his credit for the good songs? People dump on him for "Future Days," but was he not in the studio for "Getaway" or "Pendulum"?
Also, he produced the band's best work, so...perhaps the blame for the bad shit lies mostly with the band. They're the ones who allow everything to happen. If they trust the bad ideas of their producer, that's their own fault.
Let's not forget "In Hiding" has fucking piano all over it.
darthvedder81 wrote:New PJ albums always tend to rank falsely high for me at first just because "OH MY GOD NEW PEARL JAM THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER!!!!!!" then after a while I calm down and remember that Yield and Vs. will forever be champions. The fact that LB is the first time this hasn't happened tells me something.
quoted for truth.
let the dust settle and we'll see where this lands.
if there's a song on here that would be in your top 25 (or for me, 40) Pearl Jam songs, more power to you.
benton netty wrote:Why is it so hip to constantly be dumping on O'Brien? The dude didn't demand his name be printed big in the liner notes.
Also, where's his credit for the good songs? People dump on him for "Future Days," but was he not in the studio for "Getaway" or "Pendulum"?
Also, he produced the band's best work, so...perhaps the blame for the bad shit lies mostly with the band. They're the ones who allow everything to happen. If they trust the bad ideas of their producer, that's their own fault.
Let's not forget "In Hiding" has fucking piano all over it.
Hi, Brendan.
Now fuck off.
You're one of the people who is showing they don't really get how albums are made.
Now fuck off.
darthvedder81 wrote:New PJ albums always tend to rank falsely high for me at first just because "OH MY GOD NEW PEARL JAM THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER!!!!!!" then after a while I calm down and remember that Yield and Vs. will forever be champions. The fact that LB is the first time this hasn't happened tells me something.
Vs. isn't as good as that. It's got a handful of great songs on it.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
darthvedder81 wrote:New PJ albums always tend to rank falsely high for me at first just because "OH MY GOD NEW PEARL JAM THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER!!!!!!" then after a while I calm down and remember that Yield and Vs. will forever be champions. The fact that LB is the first time this hasn't happened tells me something.
Never happened with me from No Code to Riot Act. S/T, Backspacer and now LB all gave me an initial high. And the first two still rank highly in my list. LB has given me more of an initial high than anything since Vitalogy.
benton netty wrote:Why is it so hip to constantly be dumping on O'Brien? The dude didn't demand his name be printed big in the liner notes.
Also, where's his credit for the good songs? People dump on him for "Future Days," but was he not in the studio for "Getaway" or "Pendulum"?
Also, he produced the band's best work, so...perhaps the blame for the bad shit lies mostly with the band. They're the ones who allow everything to happen. If they trust the bad ideas of their producer, that's their own fault.
Let's not forget "In Hiding" has fucking piano all over it.
benton netty wrote:Why is it so hip to constantly be dumping on O'Brien? The dude didn't demand his name be printed big in the liner notes.
Also, where's his credit for the good songs? People dump on him for "Future Days," but was he not in the studio for "Getaway" or "Pendulum"?
Also, he produced the band's best work, so...perhaps the blame for the bad shit lies mostly with the band. They're the ones who allow everything to happen. If they trust the bad ideas of their producer, that's their own fault.
Let's not forget "In Hiding" has fucking piano all over it.
Hi, Brendan.
Now fuck off.
You're one of the people who is showing they don't really get how albums are made.
Now fuck off.
Evidence, benton netty. The people of RM who dislike Brendan O'Brien have been reading enough material from him, and about him, to make up their own minds, including how much influence he has over the composition, arrangement and production of Pearl Jam's newer music. People are justified in disliking the guy.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
The guy's sonic influence isn't the problem with the band. The band is the problem with the band. Whereas Eddie might once have rejected "Better Man" because Brendan liked it, now he goes along to get along.
benton netty wrote:Like I said, "In Hiding" has piano all over it.
The guy's sonic influence isn't the problem with the band. The band is the problem with the band. Whereas Eddie might once have rejected "Better Man" because Brendan liked it, now he goes along to get along.
Because they're 50.
Brendan O'Brien has changed since he was producing their own records. Again, there's a lot of video and journalistic evidence to suggest that he doesn't produce records in the way he used to, his production and aesthetic values have changed, and even his taste in music is vastly different than it used to be. We also know that the best records he produced were produced in spite of his overbearing nature and ideas, not because of them. The band would disagree and fight him over his ideas and decisions. Now they don't, which is their own fault of course. But it doesn't take away from the fact that O'Brien really isn't a likeable guy, and he really does have some serious deficiencies in the production area.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
benton netty wrote:It's easier to blame someone else for Pearl Jam not being what they once were, is what I'm saying.
But this album's got better moments than much of the stuff they've made since 2000. So who's to blame for that?
Most people I've read, whilst disliking O'Brien, have also acknowledged this. We don't like O'Brien, but he is a professional producer. We have an album of good songs produced by a professional producer. The fact that this producer is a bit of a tool who makes some bizarrely silly decisions makes this album a really good one, but not a great one.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
I don't think that collaborating with a guy who made a bunch of Train records is the best idea for PJ. But I assume their comfort zone at this point is clearly-defined, and a challenge with a new producer that would push them to be gritty and tough would be difficult.
boring is one of the worst musical critiques one can make btw.
plenty of music i (and many other) love can be considered "boring"
too many people equate slow with boring these days
be more creative. my .02
I wasn't really trying to critique it. And I certainly had no ideas of being persuasive by not further elaborating. I was simply expressing that generally there isn't anything that stirs my interest or imagination in that song. Also, boring isn't the worst thing it could be. For instance, Just Breathe is really annoying and boring. That's far worse to be in my opinion.
