America..why won't you just ban the fucking gun?

[simple schoolboy]

You are aware that politically, confiscatory gun control is a dead issue, right? Minorities were historically pro gun control, been trending the opposite direction. After 2020, outsourcing your self defense to cops that probably won't show up and if they do are as likely to shoot your dog as help you seems like a losing bet.

Must be nice to live where public safety is an afterthought.

[blueviper]

if you want to have a gun that shoots 10 bullets a second (or whatever they do) then fine. you pass a background check and no criminal offenses then you can have it. but since the 2a deals with militias you are now part of your states militia. if your militia gets called up to fight a foreign power/war then drop what you are doing and get er done

LOL. How many would sh*t their pants and claim a medical waiver if that happened.

[Peeps]

Since this thread has been bumped (once again), I've got three questions that have been percolating in my mind for quite some time now, and it'd be great to learn from any of you who want to see guns restricted more than the status quo:

1. Which types of gun ownership do you want banned?
2. What is your plan to get those guns out of the hands of those owners?

if they were lawfully purchased shouldnt there be a paper trail for them? offer a cash back offer say 5K or something or other.

3. What is your plan if the owners of those guns refuse to comply?

if they refuse fine. if that gun is used in a crime then the gun owner and immediate family face the same charges as the shooter does

[Coach]

America...why won't you just ban the fucking gun?

We now have at least 333 pages (not counting the original) on why.

[simple schoolboy]

Since this thread has been bumped (once again), I've got three questions that have been percolating in my mind for quite some time now, and it'd be great to learn from any of you who want to see guns restricted more than the status quo:

1. Which types of gun ownership do you want banned?
2. What is your plan to get those guns out of the hands of those owners?

if they were lawfully purchased shouldnt there be a paper trail for them? offer a cash back offer say 5K or something or other.

There is a paper trail to the person that purchased them from a dealer. Most states you can do private sales with no paperwork.

[Bi_3]

My state, the same one in which this latest school shooting occurred, recently became the first state in the union to ban drag shows. And why? Because of the danger drag shows present to children. That’s right, too dangerous for children. What’s the number one cause of death among children in the US? Firearms.

Not a great take given this shooter, Wease.

I did find this take interesting:

If you keep telling mentally ill kids that people disagreeing with them is literal genocide, eventually one of them is going to pick up a gun

And if Sandy Hook wasn't enough to ban guns, it's never going to happen, and so fantasies about it do nothing but distract from what can be achieved. "Perfect is the enemy of good"

[McParadigm]

any law is only as good as it can be enforced, and the reason I'm asking all three questions in concert is to get a better idea on how people want to enforce their preferred gun control laws.

I appreciate why this might feel like a smart way to approach the discussion, but speaking as someone who absolutely does want to see guns restricted...it's reductionist.

As a country, we don't approach any serious problem except guns from the perspective of "We must have a fullproof plan that we know will resolve this problem first, and only then will we act." We've spent, for example, the better part of a century pursuing the right combination of policies, and laws, and programs to resolve childhood poverty. Some things we try help. Some things maybe don't. Some of the things we come up with run into legal challenges, and of those things...some survive the challenge and some don't. We keep trying. This is the exact same pattern of experiment-defend-abandon-restart that is being used to form anti-CRT laws at the state level, yes? And we don't ask people fretting about CRT and who support laws designed to control or limit its use "ok, but what is your plan if people do (x)?"

Gun ownership reduction is another problem that can't be solved like a thought experiment. It has to be affected through an aggressive and unrelenting commitment to a trial and error of possible solutions....the way we approach everything else. The way adults should respond when children are dying at school.

Start with an assault weapon sales ban, a national voluntary buyback program, and paying cops better. Do it now and see how it affects the statistics, then plan your next steps or ambitions. Don't start with

1. Which types of gun ownership do you want banned?
2. What is your plan to get those guns out of the hands of those owners?
3. What is your plan if the owners of those guns refuse to comply?

[wease]

My state, the same one in which this latest school shooting occurred, recently became the first state in the union to ban drag shows. And why? Because of the danger drag shows present to children. That’s right, too dangerous for children. What’s the number one cause of death among children in the US? Firearms.

Not a great take given this shooter, Wease.

How does the shooter being trans negate my point?

I did find this take interesting:

If you keep telling mentally ill kids that people disagreeing with them is literal genocide, eventually one of them is going to pick up a gun

And if Sandy Hook wasn't enough to ban guns, it's never going to happen, and so fantasies about it do nothing but distract from what can be achieved. "Perfect is the enemy of good"

Unfortunately, I do agree with this point.

[Green Habit]

If you’re suggesting some sort of punitive measures for #s 2&3, I’m not holding my breath. Best case scenario is that it happens state by state and probably matches up geographically with the abortion landscape.

Do buyback programs work?

I could offer opinions on all this but they’d be fairly underinformed, and anyway my moneys on the US SC not letting anything punitive pass at a federal level.

I'm not suggesting anything, it's suggestions from others that I'm interested in learning about. Your opinions might end up being underinformed but we won't know until we hear them and think about them, and even if that ends up being the case at least we'll have had the thought.

[Green Habit]

You are aware that politically, confiscatory gun control is a dead issue, right? Minorities were historically pro gun control, been trending the opposite direction. After 2020, outsourcing your self defense to cops that probably won't show up and if they do are as likely to shoot your dog as help you seems like a losing bet.

Must be nice to live where public safety is an afterthought.

My questions are obviously not applicable to those who don't support gun control. Though I think your point about the role of cops is worth thinking about when it comes to enforcement of any law desired by anyone.

[Green Habit]

Since this thread has been bumped (once again), I've got three questions that have been percolating in my mind for quite some time now, and it'd be great to learn from any of you who want to see guns restricted more than the status quo:

1. Which types of gun ownership do you want banned?
2. What is your plan to get those guns out of the hands of those owners?

if they were lawfully purchased shouldnt there be a paper trail for them? offer a cash back offer say 5K or something or other.

3. What is your plan if the owners of those guns refuse to comply?

if they refuse fine. if that gun is used in a crime then the gun owner and immediate family face the same charges as the shooter does

Thanks for the straight answer, Peeps

[Green Habit]

any law is only as good as it can be enforced, and the reason I'm asking all three questions in concert is to get a better idea on how people want to enforce their preferred gun control laws.

I appreciate why this might feel like a smart way to approach the discussion, but speaking as someone who absolutely does want to see guns restricted...it's reductionist.

As a country, we don't approach any serious problem except guns from the perspective of "We must have a fullproof plan that we know will resolve this problem first, and only then will we act." We've spent, for example, the better part of a century pursuing the right combination of policies, and laws, and programs to resolve childhood poverty. Some things we try help. Some things maybe don't. Some of the things we come up with run into legal challenges, and of those things...some survive the challenge and some don't. We keep trying. This is the exact same pattern of experiment-defend-abandon-restart that is being used to form anti-CRT laws at the state level, yes? And we don't ask people fretting about CRT and who support laws designed to control or limit its use "ok, but what is your plan if people do (x)?"

Gun ownership reduction is another problem that can't be solved like a thought experiment. It has to be affected through an aggressive and unrelenting commitment to a trial and error of possible solutions....the way we approach everything else. The way adults should respond when children are dying at school.

Start with an assault weapon sales ban, a national voluntary buyback program, and paying cops better. Do it now and see how it affects the statistics, then plan your next steps or ambitions. Don't start with

1. Which types of gun ownership do you want banned?
2. What is your plan to get those guns out of the hands of those owners?
3. What is your plan if the owners of those guns refuse to comply?

I don't see a single shred of disagreement with you on how the methodology should be viewed here, and you ended up giving an excellent answer to all three of my questions in your last sentence, so thank you very much!

[Bi_3]

My state, the same one in which this latest school shooting occurred, recently became the first state in the union to ban drag shows. And why? Because of the danger drag shows present to children. That’s right, too dangerous for children. What’s the number one cause of death among children in the US? Firearms.

Not a great take given this shooter, Wease.

How does the shooter being trans negate my point?

It doesn't negate the point, but 1.) they also banned gender affirming care for kids and 2.) we should acknowledge that the fights over drag shows are proxy battles between trans-activists and those that oppose the activist's aims. Given what we know so far, it's not impossible the killer saw this as an eye-for-an-eye event as act of revenge for laws 'committing genocide' against trans kids. It's an increasingly common stance and we need to find a way to get both sides to turn down the volume before this gets worse.

**NOT THE KILLER, but example images**





Edit: Lt Governor of Minnesota:

[Stickman]

BodyCam footage of the Nashville shooter being "neutralized"

[simple schoolboy]

BodyCam footage of the Nashville shooter being "neutralized"

Its kind of insane how different police agencies have such drastically different responses (see Uvalde). It's not like best practices aren't widely known.

[B]

Not a great take given this shooter, Wease.

Only took 131 shooters this year before we got a trans to blame for all gun violence.

[elliseamos]

I saw something like 77% of guns in these types of events were purchased legally. Makes me think we should do something about the laws so all these lawful people stop doing crimes.

[Bammer]

Guns are for pussies who can’t take care of business with their fists.

[elliseamos]

I saw something like 77% of guns in these types of events were purchased legally. Makes me think we should do something about the laws so all these lawful people stop doing crimes.

Additionally:
More than 80% of the assailants responsible for K-12 shootings (between 1969-2019) stole their guns from family members, per the National Institute of Justice.

[elliseamos]

"We can't stop crimes, so I guess being a lawmaker is pointless."
"In describing a battlefield, my pappy explained that other soldiers will kill you because they're expecting you, a soldier, to kill them."
"The God I believe in would stop this sort of thing, even though he didn't this time or anytime prior to now."
"Not to be ironic, but as I describe how I'm not going to do anything, I say I came here, to the capital where laws are made, to get stuff done."