Does your fandom cloud your judgment?

[Kevin Davis]

From the Binaural thread in PJ chat:

Parting Ways is a litmus test for “your tastes are reasonable” vs “your fandom has clouded your vision.” Song is rear end.

Not to derail, but this is an endlessly fascinating subject to me. I don't think I could ever argue convincingly that my fandom hasn't profoundly clouded my vision of Pearl Jam, and/or any number of other artists whose music. I've loved and followed closely for a long period of time. I think this could be a really enjoyable thread premise, not necessarily just in regards to PJ, if people were interested in having the conversation.

Regardless, I'm a big fan of "Parting Ways" (and "Habit," and "NAIS"). All of that stuff is right in the PJ sweet spot for me.

start the thread. ill bite

The premise of this thread is: Do you think being a fan of an artist informs how you process new (or new-to-you) works from them, beyond just having context? Are you more inclined to like (or dislike) something because it is from an artist you already really like? Do you check your baggage at the door, or is your ability to process a new song or album on its own terms clouded by the depth of your experience with the artist? Do you lie to yourself about this? How does this play out for you?

Looking forward to everyone's replies!

[stip]

Part of the challenge of intense fandom (for me) is that I start to build an idea in my head of what sort of music/sound is acceptable from them, I become far more wedded to a particular sound of the singer's voice etc. I think it probably means deviations take longer to process.

And while there are maybe lesser songs of artists I care about that will glide right in on the strength of comfort and prior association, there are sometimes more visceral levels of dislike because expectations are so much higher

[tragabigzanda]

Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb

I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem

[BurtReynolds]

take it to the Star Wars subforum.

[epilogue]

I don't know if my favorites cloud my judgement but my favorites obviously do something that I respond well to. So, it doesn't seem weird to me that I would continue to respond to their work favorably. That doesn't mean that I love every song by those artists or whatever.

On the flip side, it does allow access to artists that I haven't loved in the past. Hearing covers of Tom Waits songs (for example) I think allowed an entry point into Tom's work. If Ed and Tori Amos (and others) hadn't loved him and covered his work, I don't know if I'd have given him a fair shot.

[liebzz]

I think I am naturally more receptive to artists I already like. I usually am predisposed to enjoying Pearl Jam albums and can’t really gauge how I feel about their albums until about 6 months in.

I also have issues with having a instinctual counter reaction to too much hype, and feel like I don’t give some music a proper listen because I am either rebelling against the expectation to conform, or I hear something and immediately think “that’s it? That’s what all this hype is about!?” And get disappointed. Billie Eilish and Taylor Swift are probably the most prevalent examples of the latter.

[Strat]

Great thread and also i feel like age is a huge component of this discussion.

Pearl Jam can "do no wrong" for me, but i can also acknowledge when it's not good. When it comes down to it ill never tire or not get excited about hearing Ed's Voice, mikes playing, yada yada.

Kind of same with star wars. I just want to be lost in that world.

I can step back and say "Yea, lightning bolt overall sucks" but also acknowledge "I put lightning bolt on and had a great fucking time"

They're in their own category.

[Ello Sailor]

Only for the Smashing Pumpkins. I'm emotionally attached and it can't be helped. I loved the last two albums and most people think they're trash, so...

[Strat]

But on any given day I might saw the replacements are my favorite band ever. Im also scared how much I love them so maybe i keep a healthy distance.

That being said, all shook down sucks so hard.

[stip]

Thinking about this, my fandom expectation for my principle artists also vary a bit. My top five are Pearl Jam, REM, Mark Lanegan, James, and Tom Waits. These are the 'I'll track down every b-side and alternative take and create playlists that are 100 songs' style artists.

For Pearl Jam and REM, I expect every song to be great, or at least good. And so albums with just a few songs that don't really hit (Reveal, Up, Around the Sun in the case of REM - for Pearl Jam Binaural, Riot Act, No Code) it really downgrades those albums for me - though even the weakest of their output (around the sun is the nadir of either band) I can still power through weaker songs in the experience of sitting through an album. As Strat said earlier, just knowing that i'm listening to either band goes a long way.

For a band like James it's a fairly similar experience, though on a lesser scale. if I can get to 7-8 I like and 3 or four of those being songs I love I'm happy.

While both Mark Lanegan and Tom Waits do have near perfect albums, whenever I would get a new album I never expect to fall in love with everything. As long as I get a few songs that make it into the rotation I'm happy. With Mark Lanegan, when he was alive, some of that was due to how prolific he was. There was always something new coming out every year (sometimes multiple things) and so songs were gifts but they didn't come with the anticipation and weight of needing to sustain me potentially for years until the next release.

But Tom Waits isn't that prolific (certainly not anymore), and yet if there was a new Tom Waits album I would just feel grateful I got one as long as there were a handful of songs I could latch on to. Bad as Me only had 3ish songs that stuck (and one incredible b-side) and it may end up being his last album, but I never despaired at that. But if it was pearl jam with only three songs there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. And while REM has broken up, if they suddenly reunited I would still be judging them by their old standards. I suppose at this point I'd be grateful for even another Around the Sun, but there still wouldn't be the 'shrug, at least now I have Chicago and New Year's Eve' reaction that Bad as Me got.

I'm not sure where I'm going with that. Just thinking through KD's question.

I do realize, listing my bands, that I'm lucky my favorite artists have all been prolific. Pearl Jam has the least total material (not counting live stuff) by far, and they are still 11 albums and prolific b-sides deep.

[Ms Harmless]

it clouds everybody's (fandom, as well as disappointment)

[Jorge]

I am sure it does on some level, but I think I maintain some amount of critical thinking. Otherwise, I would love every single song by my favorite artists (and I distinctly do not)

[wease]

I am sure it does on some level, but I think I maintain some amount of critical thinking. Otherwise, I would love every single song by my favorite artists (and I distinctly do not)

Same.

[stip]

i dont think unconditional love is the only way fandom might alter someone’s thinking

[epilogue]

i dont think unconditional love is the only way fandom might alter someone’s thinking

well that's certainly true

[Jorge]

i dont think unconditional love is the only way fandom might alter someone’s thinking

Well, this whole thing stemmed from Trag implying that nobody would like "Parting Ways" if they weren't already a PJ fan, right?

I guess the question of how fandom affects your opinions on the artist's new work is so case and context dependent that I don't really know how to answer it. Am I more willing to give the song a shot if it's by an artist I already like? Sure I guess. Does it make me actually like a song I would otherwise dislike if it were performed by someone else? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't based on the fact that I already dislike songs by my favorite artists

[tragabigzanda]

[tommy]

guys let's just focus on parting ways sucks

Someone oughta do something about you

[tragabigzanda]

[dad]

guys let's just focus on parting ways sucks

Someone oughta do something about you

"hur durr, behind a hur durr, a jealous hur, a heart of durr..."

good point.