Israel & Palestine

[Anders]

Hopefully once Israel is in full control of Gaza City, the situation there will improve drastically.

[simple schoolboy]

Any EU parliamentarian trying to refer everyone in the IDF to the Hague? I look forward to a US dual citizen get indicted so we can finally invade the Netherlands.

[BurtReynolds]

Hopefully once Israel is in full control of Gaza City, the situation there will improve drastically.

Heh

[Bi_3]

Hopefully once Israel is in full control of Gaza City, the situation there will improve drastically.

Israel demolished key infrastructure and has historically restricted materials that could be used for making weapons (including basic construction material) from entering through the blockade. It will take a decade to rebuild to where they were on 06.October and somehow they will have to house and feed the population in the meantime. Just awful.

[96583UP]

just so sad

[Anders]

Hopefully once Israel is in full control of Gaza City, the situation there will improve drastically.

Heh

Not for Hamas obviously, but for hospitals and civilians. I don’t see another solution at the moment that will spare lives.

[dimejinky99]

Hopefully once Israel is in full control of Gaza City, the situation there will improve drastically.

Wondering about this. The entire place is rubble. There’s nothing for gazans to return to. It’s all been destroyed. So what do they do? Who cleans it up and rebuilds? Who pays for it?
Reports of untold amounts of bodies dead in among all that rubble too.
So where are all those people going to go and who’s going to take care of them?

[Anders]

Hopefully once Israel is in full control of Gaza City, the situation there will improve drastically.

Wondering about this. The entire place is rubble. There’s nothing for gazans to return to. It’s all been destroyed. So what do they do? Who cleans it up and rebuilds? Who pays for it?
Reports of untold amounts of bodies dead in among all that rubble too.
So where are all those people going to go and who’s going to take care of them?

First thing is for the current armed conflict to end, and for people to stop dying from bombs and gunfire, and lack of water and electricity.

What happens in Gaza afterwards is a complicated political question.

Jordan’s foreign minister, Ayman Safadi, said on Saturday at a press conference alongside Blinken: “What happens next? How can we even entertain what will happen in Gaza when we do not know what kind of Gaza will be left after this war is done? Are we going to be talking about a wasteland? Are we going to be talking about a whole population reduced to refugees? Simply, we do not know – we do not have all the variables to even start thinking about that.”

Prof Jacob Nagel, a former national security adviser to the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has insisted Israel cannot risk relinquishing security control of Gaza. “No matter which entity will take responsibility for Gaza’s civil affairs, Israel will be the full security authority. The entirety of the Gaza Strip, especially Gaza City, will be demilitarised and will not contain tunnels, weapons or the ability to produce weapons.

“All goods that enter Gaza will be completely monitored by Israel, and Israeli security forces will be able to enter Gaza anytime, anywhere, to ensure the removal of any potential threat to Israel.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... e-war-ends

[dimejinky99]

And remember Gaza and West Bank both sitting on massive gas and oil deposits.

Israel responsible for all the destruction. Israel should pay to rebuild it.

Billions belonging to Russia are seized and proposed to pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine.
Do the same here.

[dimejinky99]

Ireland kinda kicked off the boycott of South Africa and all goods coming from when they were doing apartheid. Mandela and Tutu both freemen of Dublin praised some just regular women in a supermarket in Dublin for taking a stand. Bit of history for you on the many reasons we don’t like genocidal maniacs like the state of Israel.

When Irish Dunnes Stores workers refused to sell South African goods to protest apartheid, it led the Irish government to implement a national boycott. These are the radical stands we must take in solidarity with Palestine, writes Beauty Dhlamini.

SA
The Dunnes Store twelve, who mobilised and decided that their principles were more important than the personal cost to their livelihoods, challenge us to consider the real strength of our solidarity with the Palestinian struggle, writes Beauty Dhlamini.
Thirty-nine years ago, on 19 July in 1984, Dunnes Stores workers took a stand with those against the apartheid regime in South Africa resulting in one of the most poignant, disruptive acts of international solidarity.

It all began when Mary Manning, a 21 year old cashier at Dunnes Stores in Dublin, followed a directive given by her trade union, the Irish Distributive and Administrative Union (IDATU), now Mandate Trade Union, to refuse handling South African goods as resistance against their segregationist and oppressive policies. She denied scanning two oranges through her till, an act so small yet so powerful. Together with another colleague, shop steward Karen Gearon, they continued to defy store management and refused to handle any apartheid South African produce.

Their actions resulted in their suspension and they went on strike together with ten IDATU members, including Liz Deasy, Michelle Gavin, Vonnie Munroe, Alma Russell, Tommy Davis, Sandra Griffin, Theresa Mooney, Cathryn O'Reilly and Brendan Barron.

As the fallout from the strikes unfolded, these workers received £21 a week worth of strike pay and it was assumed that the strikes were largely motivated by poor industrial relations rather than a nuanced understanding of the struggles of South Africans living under the apartheid regime. However, these strikes had a rippling effect that stood strong for almost three years, eventually forcing the Irish government to ban South African goods from being sold in Ireland.

This ban was only reached as a result of national and international public pressures in support of strikers and upheld until the end of the apartheid regime, in 1994. It was the first complete ban of South African imports by a Western government.

Striking Back

As with most organising and acts of solidarity, it was not easy or straightforward.

As detailed in the book by Manning, Striking Back: The Untold Story of an Apartheid Striker the events that occurred that day were not just about defiance in the face of management or the Irish establishment, but also eventually became longstanding resistance to the status quo.

Comrades such as Nimrod Sejake, a black South African living in exile, joined the Dunnes store twelve picket throughout the strikes, and provided organising tools, resources, and education about the realities of apartheid South Africa. He was instrumental in helping them build this as a movement within Ireland.

It was only when Archbishop Desmond Tutu was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984 and requested the Dunnes strikers attend, that public opinion slowly started to change in Ireland. This gained momentum and mobilised more people, particularly when they were denied entry into South Africa and the consequential media attention caused an international uproar.



The clear selfless actions of a small group of Irish working class workers despite threats from management, fellow workers and the majority of the wider public, shows that we all have the capacity to stand on the right side of history. What people consider an inconvenience to their lives finally made the biggest difference to the growing international solidarity movement against apartheid in South Africa.

Remembering Palestine

In December 2014, members and supporters of the Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign shared their petition with over 8000 signatures with Dunnes Stores, calling on them to stop stocking goods produced in illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories. They asked the stores not to let history repeat itself by making this public commitment.

This also coincided with the 30th anniversary of the 1984 Dunnes Stores anti-apartheid strike to support justice for Palestinians.

The Dunnes Store twelve, who mobilised and decided that their principles were more important than the personal cost to their livelihoods, challenge us to consider the real strength of our solidarity today when it comes to the Palestinian struggle. They demonstrated that support against the apartheid regime then, was present but conditional. Indeed, whilst there are many of us as individuals, groups and communities, who would consider ourselves to be allies of Palestinians fighting for liberation, we must question to what extent we are putting this into practice.

It is not enough for us to continue making empty statements of solidarity - we need to disrupt the comfortable order that currently exists from people seemingly saying and doing all the right things.

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Perspectives
Ryvka Barnard
For sure, we as masses are moved by emotional stories, and we are impacted by the images and videos we see on social media of Palestinians living under apartheid, facing home intrusions and demolitions in Jerusalem, senseless violence and attacks on refugee camps in Jenin. But, our reactive emotions to knowing and seeing all of this, is fleeting, only to be drowned out by other atrocities in our news cycles. This is the everyday reality for a Palestinian.

Thirty-nine years on, the Dunnes stores strikes should inspire us to continue disrupting the success of Israel’s apartheid regime. It should be a lesson for us all to not overlook or be complacent in the persistent plight and devastation of the Palestinian people. This means both individually and collectively, we should be bolder in our support for Palestinians and against the apartheid regime in Israel.

Unquestionably, this requires committing to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement. The UK government continues to undermine our role in international Palestine solidarity movements as it tries to pass its anti-BDS Bill through parliament, but we have to remain unmovable and relentless in our fight against it. Plans to stop us exercising our rights to boycott Israeli trade is an unforgivable infringement on our freedom of expression, protest and to stand up for what we believe in.

The success of South African anti-apartheid boycotts, such as the Dunnes store strike, proves what this government does not want us to realise: boycotts work! We should not be curtailed by false accusations of antisemitism or legislative restrictions, but instead it should light a fire beneath us to further mobilise and embolden collective organising and international solidarity movements. Ultimately, regardless of what the UK government try and do, one way or another Palestine will be free.

[dimejinky99]

Tldr version here

https://www.thejournal.ie/30-years-dunn ... 4-Jul2014/

[Anders]

I wish there was more support for a one state solution. I think it’s the only one that has a chance of real lasting peace.

[dimejinky99]

About to get much much worse.

Those babies you saw, they’re all in Hamas apparently.

[dimejinky99]

You tell em Hillary

[Rob]

How could there be a Jewish state if Jewish people aren’t the majority? I don’t know how to reconcile the real need for a secure Jewish state, and the way that conflicts with the ability of Palestinians to have real freedom and rights.

[Mickey]

Really makes you think

[Anders]

There would have to be guarantees for Israel to remain a Jewish state. Because there are no other Jewish states, amd having one is necessary. But ending the current confiict is just as important.

Even in current Israel there is never a guarantee that Jews will remain in the majority, so better to have it by law.

[Mickey]

"There should not be separate Jewish and Arab states, there should be one state, but it should be a Jewish one." Wow sounds great, what could go wrong.

[Anders]

[BurtReynolds]

What would these guarantees take the form of exactly? And why the necessity for a Jewish state?