stip wrote:mike’s extended improvisational solos are a really important ingredient in their live shows and he is right that overthinking some of the key lightning bolt solos probably hurt them a bit (think yellow moon or sirens)z
paradoxically, i think they're also the things that hold the studio albums back and relegate the songs to predictable, paint-by-numbers where the band falls into a comfort zone without any degree of creativity or going out on a limb with trying new things.
With the caveat that I'm just speculating, in my mind I attribute that to the fact that folks seem to write near complete songs, and so I imagine the give and take of musicians who clearly play really well together gets lost, and songs can start to feel more one dimensional or repetitive just because there is one dominant voice rather than everyone in there transforming and adapting what's happening in real time.
I'm a meat and potatoes pearl jam fan, and it does sound like Watt is aware of what their creative strengths are and creating conditions for those to come through. Obviously the proof will be in the music.
I feel like we would have heard about guest artists by now.
I'm certainly hopeful, but it continues to be a little bit of a bummer in that alot of the ways they've talked about the new album make it seem like they're running away from some of the things they did on Gigaton. I think that'd be a mistake, cause to their credit that album really went a long way towards course correcting so many of the things that I thought had tripped them up in studio work in the previous decade.
That being said, trying to predict anything based on Mike quotes (and really from anyone in the band) is a bit of a rabbit hole.
digster wrote:I'm certainly hopeful, but it continues to be a little bit of a bummer in that alot of the ways they've talked about the new album make it seem like they're running away from some of the things they did on Gigaton. I think that'd be a mistake, cause to their credit that album really went a long way towards course correcting so many of the things that I thought had tripped them up in studio work in the previous decade.
That being said, trying to predict anything based on Mike quotes (and really from anyone in the band) is a bit of a rabbit hole.
Yes. These are all similar quotes we’ve always heard from the band, and so there’s no way to know until we hear it. Mike’s quote could just as well be on one song as the whole album.
I also agree that I would have liked to hear stuff that is taking the tinkering they were doing on Gigaton and continuing to push the line further. I am not saying it should be an art rock album or anything, but what sets an album like Lightning Bolt down at the bottom of my pile is instead of about the outside influences their work, it was more equating the song I heard with a different song they already played. That even played out in the media where we were told Sirens was the new Black. I don’t need a Pearl Jam album that sounds like another Pearl Jam album - new is new. Otherwise, it is what I have said Lightning Bolt is - a ditto copy of what’s already there, which is not as crisp or clear as the original.
digster wrote:I'm certainly hopeful, but it continues to be a little bit of a bummer in that alot of the ways they've talked about the new album make it seem like they're running away from some of the things they did on Gigaton. I think that'd be a mistake, cause to their credit that album really went a long way towards course correcting so many of the things that I thought had tripped them up in studio work in the previous decade.
That being said, trying to predict anything based on Mike quotes (and really from anyone in the band) is a bit of a rabbit hole.
Yes. These are all similar quotes we’ve always heard from the band, and so there’s no way to know until we hear it. Mike’s quote could just as well be on one song as the whole album.
I also agree that I would have liked to hear stuff that is taking the tinkering they were doing on Gigaton and continuing to push the line further. I am not saying it should be an art rock album or anything, but what sets an album like Lightning Bolt down at the bottom of my pile is instead of about the outside influences their work, it was more equating the song I heard with a different song they already played. That even played out in the media where we were told Sirens was the new Black. I don’t need a Pearl Jam album that sounds like another Pearl Jam album - new is new. Otherwise, it is what I have said Lightning Bolt is - a ditto copy of what’s already there, which is not as crisp or clear as the original.
they are surprisingly bad about talking about their music, or even their process. I'm not sure why that is as they are all deeply steeped in music, music history, and all the rest. A description from the band about what something is/isn't doesn't help us much. That's why I'm more intrigued by comments along the lines of '1-2 take solos' or 'not coming in with pre-written songs'. I think we can garner more from that.
digster wrote:I'm certainly hopeful, but it continues to be a little bit of a bummer in that alot of the ways they've talked about the new album make it seem like they're running away from some of the things they did on Gigaton. I think that'd be a mistake, cause to their credit that album really went a long way towards course correcting so many of the things that I thought had tripped them up in studio work in the previous decade.
That being said, trying to predict anything based on Mike quotes (and really from anyone in the band) is a bit of a rabbit hole.
Yes. These are all similar quotes we’ve always heard from the band, and so there’s no way to know until we hear it. Mike’s quote could just as well be on one song as the whole album.
I also agree that I would have liked to hear stuff that is taking the tinkering they were doing on Gigaton and continuing to push the line further. I am not saying it should be an art rock album or anything, but what sets an album like Lightning Bolt down at the bottom of my pile is instead of about the outside influences their work, it was more equating the song I heard with a different song they already played. That even played out in the media where we were told Sirens was the new Black. I don’t need a Pearl Jam album that sounds like another Pearl Jam album - new is new. Otherwise, it is what I have said Lightning Bolt is - a ditto copy of what’s already there, which is not as crisp or clear as the original.
they are surprisingly bad about talking about their music, or even their process. I'm not sure why that is as they are all deeply steeped in music, music history, and all the rest. A description from the band about what something is/isn't doesn't help us much. That's why I'm more intrigued by comments along the lines of '1-2 take solos' or 'not coming in with pre-written songs'. I think we can garner more from that.
But who knows. We'll know when we hear it.
Fans are also kind of bad at taking one off comments and interpretting them with their own infused drama/wants/desires/likes/dislikes and running it into the ground.
Strat wrote:
Fans are also kind of bad at taking one off comments and interpretting them with their own infused drama/wants/desires/likes/dislikes and running it into the ground.
I think really the only thing I'm not thrilled by (or even have an opinion on) is something like this:
“When we were in the studio with him this past year, he really kicked our asses, got us focused and playing, song after song. It took a long time to make Gigaton, but this new one didn’t take long. Andrew was like: ‘You guys take forever to make records. Let’s do this, right now.”
This is something that's constantly come up with them, across multiple albums; they seem obsessed with things not taking much time to make, and that that's a sign of inspiration or that it's particularly good. I'm sure that's true sometimes, but I'm not sure that's really been the case for them, at least this century.
Strat wrote:
Fans are also kind of bad at taking one off comments and interpretting them with their own infused drama/wants/desires/likes/dislikes and running it into the ground.
I think really the only thing I'm not thrilled by (or even have an opinion on) is something like this:
“When we were in the studio with him this past year, he really kicked our asses, got us focused and playing, song after song. It took a long time to make Gigaton, but this new one didn’t take long. Andrew was like: ‘You guys take forever to make records. Let’s do this, right now.”
This is something that's constantly come up with them, across multiple albums; they seem obsessed with things not taking much time to make, and that that's a sign of inspiration or that it's particularly good. I'm sure that's true sometimes, but I'm not sure that's really been the case for them, at least this century.
Consider DOTC is the best thing they've done in like 18 years and probably they labored over it quite a bit more than Never Destination
Strat wrote:
Fans are also kind of bad at taking one off comments and interpretting them with their own infused drama/wants/desires/likes/dislikes and running it into the ground.
I think really the only thing I'm not thrilled by (or even have an opinion on) is something like this:
“When we were in the studio with him this past year, he really kicked our asses, got us focused and playing, song after song. It took a long time to make Gigaton, but this new one didn’t take long. Andrew was like: ‘You guys take forever to make records. Let’s do this, right now.”
This is something that's constantly come up with them, across multiple albums; they seem obsessed with things not taking much time to make, and that that's a sign of inspiration or that it's particularly good. I'm sure that's true sometimes, but I'm not sure that's really been the case for them, at least this century.
I think you can make good music by laboring over it and also by not.
There isn't a magic formula. They have had success in both regards.
On the lines of this discussion, there’s definitely a balance between rushing it (let’s face it, Backspacer has elements of this) and laboring and overthinking so much that it crushes the soul of the song. Every song I am sure is different in the level required to meet that balance, and I hope they find it.
Also, Andrew Watt, if he is a super fan, should know that they take forever to make albums because they simply don’t record that much - they stretched their album cycles out not out of needing to continue recording and writing, but more because they take more time off and pace themselves differently than other bands, and they don’t prescribe themselves the same kind of cycles that Springsteen or RHCP do where they are playing 100+ dates a year then hit the studio again (granted that Springsteen has now also broken that unending cycle as well).
Strat wrote:
Fans are also kind of bad at taking one off comments and interpretting them with their own infused drama/wants/desires/likes/dislikes and running it into the ground.
I think really the only thing I'm not thrilled by (or even have an opinion on) is something like this:
“When we were in the studio with him this past year, he really kicked our asses, got us focused and playing, song after song. It took a long time to make Gigaton, but this new one didn’t take long. Andrew was like: ‘You guys take forever to make records. Let’s do this, right now.”
This is something that's constantly come up with them, across multiple albums; they seem obsessed with things not taking much time to make, and that that's a sign of inspiration or that it's particularly good. I'm sure that's true sometimes, but I'm not sure that's really been the case for them, at least this century.
I think you can make good music by laboring over it and also by not.
There isn't a magic formula. They have had success in both regards.
They have, which is why I'm not really overselling my criticism here. That being said, I think for me at least, in the past two decades the albums that have resonated were the ones that they allowed some space and time to experiment and really work on stuff, and the stuff that fell flat were the things that they worked on quickly. Maybe that changes with the next record.
