Israel & Palestine

[Anders]

Imagine if the rulers of Gaza in the past decade, went on a mission of peace, of building relations and economic stability through working with friendly states, on having their own water supply, their own electrical supply, on putting international pressure on Gaza ruling itself, building a better future for their people. Instead they did everything after they got into power, in eliminating their Fatah opposition, killing lots of people. Then spent money on building rockets, and making the top guys in Hamas rich. Then attacking Israel, giving Netanyahu and his people the chance to order this slaughter. Also you know that no matter what happens, if Hamas are in charge in the future, they will do the same thing again.

[dimejinky99]

It's interesting that the simplest answer is not considered

The simplest answer being what? Release the hostages? Do you really think Israel is going to let up on the pounding of Gaza/Hamas just because the hostages are all released? There is no way.

Encouraged and amazed to see this (not just from you Ruddo) but a growing realisation overall globally that there’s another agenda at play and Hamas are just the pantomime bad guy to pin everything Israel wants to do as a ‘right to defend ourselves against Hamas’ nonsense. Because it is a a nonsense and even the US administration and Biden just last night are saying as much.
Another UN vote last night calling for an immediate ceasefire and the vast majority in support and yet the US and a handful of country’s nobody’s even heard of, blocking it.
So what are those tiny countries being bribed with? That’s a separate issue on its own though I guess

[dimejinky99]

Imagine if the rulers of Gaza in the past decade, went on a mission of peace, of building relations and economic stability through working with friendly states, on having their own water supply, their own electrical supply, on putting international pressure on Gaza ruling itself, building a better future for their people. Instead they did everything after they got into power, in eliminating their Fatah opposition, killing lots of people. Then spent money on building rockets, and making the top guys in Hamas rich. Then attacking Israel, giving Netanyahu and his people the chance to order this slaughter. Also you know that no matter what happens, if Hamas are in charge in the future, they will do the same thing again.

Nobody can deny or argue with a word of that Anders.
So go after those guys. Extradition will never happen, so take them out special ops (well within Mossad and US capabilities. Both have done it before)
But bombing Gaza and now the West Bank into dust and killing endless amounts of Palestinians just sees the cycle continuing forever

[dimejinky99]

It was never about Hamas. It was about and remains a genocide.

"BREAKING| Israeli forces besiege Al Shifa Hospital in Jenin in the West Bank right now.

QNN correspondent along with other journalists, medical teams, and patients are surrounded in the hospital."

Via Al quds news network

Looks like a mass grave waiting to happen doesnt it?
Because it very likely is.

[Bi_3]

It's interesting that the simplest answer is not considered

The simplest answer being what? Release the hostages? Do you really think Israel is going to let up on the pounding of Gaza/Hamas just because the hostages are all released? There is no way.

The Gazans don’t want to overthrow Hamas

you seem to know them well

I don't know the reason or if there aren't many of them or a combination of many, but it seems like that is something that should be considered as a simple answer that explains why Gazans do not rise up against Hamas. Just because us keyboard warriors in the Americas and Europe don't like that answer, that it does not align with our conceptions of universal human values and agency, does not mean that it's not correct. And accepting that this idea might be or is true does not mean that Israel's treatment of Palestinians is morally justified.

It's interesting that the simplest answer is not considered

The simplest answer being what? Release the hostages? Do you really think Israel is going to let up on the pounding of Gaza/Hamas just because the hostages are all released? There is no way.

Encouraged and amazed to see this (not just from you Ruddo) but a growing realisation overall globally that there’s another agenda at play and Hamas are just the pantomime bad guy to pin everything Israel wants to do as a ‘right to defend ourselves against Hamas’ nonsense. Because it is a a nonsense and even the US administration and Biden just last night are saying as much.
Another UN vote last night calling for an immediate ceasefire and the vast majority in support and yet the US and a handful of country’s nobody’s even heard of, blocking it.
So what are those tiny countries being bribed with? That’s a separate issue on its own though I guess

Putting aside calling aggressive measures to protect citizens from a repeat of the mass killings, torture, and r4pe on 07.Oct "nonsense", what if it was the opposite? What if other states in the area fueled hatred against Israel to distract their citizens from their own abusive and exploitative policies and behaviors, and prevent peace and the type of regional stability that would threaten their long term survival? What if those countries voting for a ceasefire don't really want one between Israel and Hamas but instead want to maintain their power and peace inside their own borders so they conduct a risk-free performative "we stand for peace" vote knowing no matter how they vote the US will override them and vote with Israel?

[BurtReynolds]

Imagine if the rulers of Gaza in the past decade, went on a mission of peace, of building relations and economic stability through working with friendly states, on having their own water supply, their own electrical supply, on putting international pressure on Gaza ruling itself, building a better future for their people. Instead they did everything after they got into power, in eliminating their Fatah opposition, killing lots of people. Then spent money on building rockets, and making the top guys in Hamas rich. Then attacking Israel, giving Netanyahu and his people the chance to order this slaughter. Also you know that no matter what happens, if Hamas are in charge in the future, they will do the same thing again.

likely they would have been pushed out or left as destitute prisoners anyway. But at least they'd have that precious moral high ground and the goodwill of the west!

[VinylGuy]

It's interesting that the simplest answer is not considered

The simplest answer being what? Release the hostages? Do you really think Israel is going to let up on the pounding of Gaza/Hamas just because the hostages are all released? There is no way.

The Gazans don’t want to overthrow Hamas

you seem to know them well

I don't know the reason or if there aren't many of them or a combination of many, but it seems like that is something that should be considered as a simple answer that explains why Gazans do not rise up against Hamas. Just because us keyboard warriors in the Americas and Europe don't like that answer, that it does not align with our conceptions of universal human values and agency, does not mean that it's not correct. And accepting that this idea might be or is true does not mean that Israel's treatment of Palestinians is morally justified.

It's interesting that the simplest answer is not considered

The simplest answer being what? Release the hostages? Do you really think Israel is going to let up on the pounding of Gaza/Hamas just because the hostages are all released? There is no way.

Encouraged and amazed to see this (not just from you Ruddo) but a growing realisation overall globally that there’s another agenda at play and Hamas are just the pantomime bad guy to pin everything Israel wants to do as a ‘right to defend ourselves against Hamas’ nonsense. Because it is a a nonsense and even the US administration and Biden just last night are saying as much.
Another UN vote last night calling for an immediate ceasefire and the vast majority in support and yet the US and a handful of country’s nobody’s even heard of, blocking it.
So what are those tiny countries being bribed with? That’s a separate issue on its own though I guess

Putting aside calling aggressive measures to protect citizens from a repeat of the mass killings, torture, and r4pe on 07.Oct "nonsense", what if it was the opposite? What if other states in the area fueled hatred against Israel to distract their citizens from their own abusive and exploitative policies and behaviors, and prevent peace and the type of regional stability that would threaten their long term survival? What if those countries voting for a ceasefire don't really want one between Israel and Hamas but instead want to maintain their power and peace inside their own borders so they conduct a risk-free performative "we stand for peace" vote knowing no matter how they vote the US will override them and vote with Israel?

¨ït seems¨ is very different than ¨they dont want¨ and jesus christ, of course Israel treatment of Palestinians is not morally justified.

[Bi_3]

This might be a subtly of language issue. I was not asserting that gazan=hamas, I was asserting that the people posting responses to the question should not assume as a first principle that Gazans would not choose to support Hamas over Israel in a situation where they are forced to choose between dying while rebelling against Hamas or dying from starvation while Hamas is fighting against Israel. The other explanations posted assume a rational decision based on western values is being made, when basic in-group preference (race, religion, etc.) is equally if not more likely to explain the lack of a revolt.

[VinylGuy]

i dont think its a language thing, but whatever, if you feel that way cool.

Im not interesting in discussing if the Gazans support or not support Hamas, because i dont have that information and at this point it seems a very moot discussion.

[Anders]

Imagine if the rulers of Gaza in the past decade, went on a mission of peace, of building relations and economic stability through working with friendly states, on having their own water supply, their own electrical supply, on putting international pressure on Gaza ruling itself, building a better future for their people. Instead they did everything after they got into power, in eliminating their Fatah opposition, killing lots of people. Then spent money on building rockets, and making the top guys in Hamas rich. Then attacking Israel, giving Netanyahu and his people the chance to order this slaughter. Also you know that no matter what happens, if Hamas are in charge in the future, they will do the same thing again.

likely they would have been pushed out or left as destitute prisoners anyway. But at least they'd have that precious moral high ground and the goodwill of the west!

Unllikely that Israel would have attacked for no reason, after previously leaving Gaza. Certainly that is not what happened.

[dimejinky99]

Exactly this. Which is mad

‘ Remember that time we were squabbling about whether or not they targeted that hospital? That was about 20 hospitals and 15,000 murders ago.’

[Bi_3]

This explains a lot

[tommy]

Am I misreading that or was the sample size 668?

[96583UP]

[96583UP]

ah no more embeds.....

the video is Biden administration staffers gathering in front of the white house in protest calling for a ceasefire

[Stickman]

I can hear the army commander now "we will investigate this further as our members are held to high standards of conduct"

Palestinian journalist is brutally beaten for no reason by israeli Occupation on camera. He was later hospitalized.

[Stickman]

See above

[dimejinky99]

Just doesn’t stop until everyone is dead does it?
And now they’ve pissed off the Vatican. Never lies off the Vatican guys

[dimejinky99]

IDF shot and killed three of the hostages.


Didn’t even pause to check were they hostages.

That’s damning

[Anders]

They even had white flags.