Israel & Palestine

[Stickman]

Israeli Police beat up anti-Zionist Jews for supporting Palestinians in Jerusalem

[Anders]

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231 ... assaulted/

The video in Stickman's post is from November 2nd.

[knee tunes]

This situation sickens and weakens me everyday

Its glaring that the fate of so many is in the hands of so few.

[Rob]

«In December 2022, support for a two-state solution was 33% among Palestinians, 34% among Israeli Jews, and 60% among Israeli Arabs. 82% of Israeli Jews and 75% of Palestinians believed that the other side would never accept the existence of their independent state.»

«Support for a one-state solution is increasing as Palestinians, frustrated by lack of progress in negotiations aiming to establish the two-state solution, increasingly see the one-state solution as an alternative way forward.»

I know the polling, but there are roughly 7 million Jews and almost 7 million Arabs there. People answer polling questions idealistically. There cannot be a Jewish state without a dominant Jewish majority. A one state solution would end up being true system of apartheid or a truly democratic state that ceases to be Jewish. There is no third option. As stated in that article you posted, Palestinians see a one state solution as their only option - as do many - because Israel has basically carved up the West Bank and they no longer see a two state solution as a viable option. But there is no other way. A one state solution means Israelis and Palestinians live together and make peace, in a fair way, in order to share a country. I think we are waaaaay past that opportunity.

[Anders]

«In December 2022, support for a two-state solution was 33% among Palestinians, 34% among Israeli Jews, and 60% among Israeli Arabs. 82% of Israeli Jews and 75% of Palestinians believed that the other side would never accept the existence of their independent state.»

«Support for a one-state solution is increasing as Palestinians, frustrated by lack of progress in negotiations aiming to establish the two-state solution, increasingly see the one-state solution as an alternative way forward.»

I know the polling, but there are roughly 7 million Jews and almost 7 million Arabs there. People answer polling questions idealistically. There cannot be a Jewish state without a dominant Jewish majority. A one state solution would end up being true system of apartheid or a truly democratic state that ceases to be Jewish. There is no third option. As stated in that article you posted, Palestinians see a one state solution as their only option - as do many - because Israel has basically carved up the West Bank and they no longer see a two state solution as a viable option. But there is no other way. A one state solution means Israelis and Palestinians live together and make peace, in a fair way, in order to share a country. I think we are waaaaay past that opportunity.

It is possible the state seizes to be Jewish, which is why Israel has not done this a long time ago. Apartheid I think is unlikely in a one state solution, as there are already 1,7 million Muslims in Israel, that are not living in apartheid. But at the moment there is no international pressure on a one state solution, just some on an unrealistic two state solution.

[Bi_3]

«In December 2022, support for a two-state solution was 33% among Palestinians, 34% among Israeli Jews, and 60% among Israeli Arabs. 82% of Israeli Jews and 75% of Palestinians believed that the other side would never accept the existence of their independent state.»

«Support for a one-state solution is increasing as Palestinians, frustrated by lack of progress in negotiations aiming to establish the two-state solution, increasingly see the one-state solution as an alternative way forward.»

I know the polling, but there are roughly 7 million Jews and almost 7 million Arabs there. People answer polling questions idealistically. There cannot be a Jewish state without a dominant Jewish majority. A one state solution would end up being true system of apartheid or a truly democratic state that ceases to be Jewish. There is no third option. As stated in that article you posted, Palestinians see a one state solution as their only option - as do many - because Israel has basically carved up the West Bank and they no longer see a two state solution as a viable option. But there is no other way. A one state solution means Israelis and Palestinians live together and make peace, in a fair way, in order to share a country. I think we are waaaaay past that opportunity.

It is possible the state seizes to be Jewish, which is why Israel has not done this a long time ago. Apartheid I think is unlikely in a one state solution, as there are already 1,7 million Muslims in Israel, that are not living in apartheid. But at the moment there is no international pressure on a one state solution, just some on an unrealistic two state solution.

History tells us a one state solution is not in the interest of peace in the region and I agree with Rob here except on one point and that is that Israel did force a sizable population of it's citizens to leave Gaza in the mid-2000s despite large scale investment in housing and infrastructure there, so it's not out of the question that given the right conditions the same thing could be repeated in the West Bank. The Palestinians would have to offer something pretty significant though as no offer of peace or a ceasefire can be taken seriously after 07.Oct.

[Anders]

I find it difficult to imagine how a two state solution would look, be accepted by both sides, and work well for the future.

[Rob]

«In December 2022, support for a two-state solution was 33% among Palestinians, 34% among Israeli Jews, and 60% among Israeli Arabs. 82% of Israeli Jews and 75% of Palestinians believed that the other side would never accept the existence of their independent state.»

«Support for a one-state solution is increasing as Palestinians, frustrated by lack of progress in negotiations aiming to establish the two-state solution, increasingly see the one-state solution as an alternative way forward.»

I know the polling, but there are roughly 7 million Jews and almost 7 million Arabs there. People answer polling questions idealistically. There cannot be a Jewish state without a dominant Jewish majority. A one state solution would end up being true system of apartheid or a truly democratic state that ceases to be Jewish. There is no third option. As stated in that article you posted, Palestinians see a one state solution as their only option - as do many - because Israel has basically carved up the West Bank and they no longer see a two state solution as a viable option. But there is no other way. A one state solution means Israelis and Palestinians live together and make peace, in a fair way, in order to share a country. I think we are waaaaay past that opportunity.

It is possible the state seizes to be Jewish, which is why Israel has not done this a long time ago. Apartheid I think is unlikely in a one state solution, as there are already 1,7 million Muslims in Israel, that are not living in apartheid. But at the moment there is no international pressure on a one state solution, just some on an unrealistic two state solution.

History tells us a one state solution is not in the interest of peace in the region and I agree with Rob here except on one point and that is that Israel did force a sizable population of it's citizens to leave Gaza in the mid-2000s despite large scale investment in housing and infrastructure there, so it's not out of the question that given the right conditions the same thing could be repeated in the West Bank. The Palestinians would have to offer something pretty significant though as no offer of peace or a ceasefire can be taken seriously after 07.Oct.

I don’t think we disagree. I’m stating what Israel has done in the West Bank but as you point out, it can undo this, and it needs to. And I know there are many, many senior leaders in Israel who know this because they have said so. There is a group in Israel called “Commanders for the security of Israel” (or something like that) comprised of former generals and their counterparts in the IDF. They have a plan for this already. An entire list of the things Israel can do no matter what help, if any, Palestinians provide. A plan to turn around and slowly walk a lot of the last 20 years back. Their views are that Israeli policy (and Netanyahu especially) does nothing but perpetuate and worsen any chance for peace. Their view is that a 2 state solution along 1967 borders are the only way.

[Anders]

That is extremely unlikely.

[Anders]

[Bi_3]

Is this still the major news where you are? It seems to have been accepted as something that will need to occur until Israel stops in all but the leftist press

[Anders]

https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/i/EQ ... nne-gisler
https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/gaza-f ... s/80858734
https://www.aftenposten.no/verden/i/Kn0 ... aa-er-feil
https://www.nrk.no/urix/netanyahu-avvis ... 1.16726469
https://e24.no/naeringsliv/i/mQkrl0/gaz ... k-bransjen
https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/norsk ... 95-1592288

Here's various news in Norwegian about the war from the last day or so. A few of these are brand new and near the top of the page, while a few I had to look for further down on the page. I'll agree that it's not as big news as it was a month or two ago. Also has to "compete" with the US Election, Russia/Ukraine and other stories about news abroad.

[dimejinky99]

We have disappearing posts in rm now

That’s what I get for a shitty password

[Bi_3]

Israel is doing exactly what they said they would and is building a 1km buffer zone (ie kill zone) inside Gaza along the border to prevent future incursions :

https://apple.news/AcYhjNoShRtyqCiel4xNBRw

[dimejinky99]

I’m not in that world and all I know is he’s a cunt
But if even Joe Rohan is speaking out about what’s Israel’s doing, you know they’ve lost the argument

[dimejinky99]

[Anders]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-68097640

"ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocidal acts in Gaza but not to end war

Summary
The UN's top court rules that Israel must take all measures to prevent genocidal acts in Gaza, but stops short of ordering an immediate halt to operations

Judges at the International Court of Justice have been delivering an interim ruling in South Africa's genocide case against Israel

A verdict on South Africa's allegation of genocide is not expected for years; Israel strongly denies the accusation, calling it "baseless"

Meanwhile, US media report that the head of the CIA is due to meet Israeli, Qatari and Egyptian officials in the coming days to discuss a new potential ceasefire in Gaza

Israel's retaliatory attacks in Gaza have killed 25,900 people, mostly women and children, the Hamas-run health ministry says

The current war began after Hamas attacked southern Israel on 7 October, killing about 1,300 people, mostly civilians, and taking 240 hostages"

[dimejinky99]

They were always going to ignore any ruling no matter what from the icj. But this is piss poor from the icj. Pointless almost.

[Anders]

It’s about what I expected.

[Anders]