Dark Matter: Official Album Thread

[oneway23]

Trag and Spenno will cry

I absolutely find it sad when a band that was so influential for me seems to have abandoned the most important aspects of what drew me to them in the first place.

pearl jam’s song writing attribution standards were the cornerstone of my fandom, too

Dry snark stip is a particular favorite of mine

[Ms Harmless]

it was a fantastic post Stip

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[oneway23]

As if the integrity meter has somehow seismically swung from Fugazi over to Katy Perry.

They were never Fugazi to begin with, but tits aside, there’s not much difference between what they’re doing now and what Katy Perry has been doing her entire career, which is sourcing musical ideas from others, and abandoning any measure of subtlety, to sell tickets and merch.

Both their artistic and commercial (ticket program) integrity have in fact taken a big dive with this project, IMO. I’d be more or less fine with the first one if it didn’t sound like shit. The ticket nonsense is bogus no matter how you try to spin it.

As if the integrity meter has somehow seismically swung from Fugazi over to Katy Perry.

[stip]

As if the integrity meter has somehow seismically swung from Fugazi over to Katy Perry.

They were never Fugazi to begin with, but tits aside, there’s not much difference between what they’re doing now and what Katy Perry has been doing her entire career, which is sourcing musical ideas from others, and abandoning any measure of subtlety, to sell tickets and merch.

Both their artistic and commercial (ticket program) integrity have in fact taken a big dive with this project, IMO. I’d be more or less fine with the first one if it didn’t sound like shit. The ticket nonsense is bogus no matter how you try to spin it.

i did not follow what is happening with tickets this tour beyond making my requests. other than the increase in cost what are people upset about?


‘sourcing musical ideas from others’ is you projecting your deep issues with Watt onto the band. Artists work with producers. Producers help craft and shape the music. Its why they matter and why we care who they are

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[stip]

Any argument that “PJ isn’t Katy Perry” will be rooted in the band’s past. If Dark Matter was their debut, and you had no prior frame of reference, then the difference between their creative processes as a vehicle for sales becomes plainly obvious.

this is complete and utter nonsense. Did Andrew Watt (sorry, Wotman out of respect for the Minutemen) run over your dog? this is starting to border on hysterics

[Ms Harmless]

Any argument that “PJ isn’t Katy Perry” will be rooted in the band’s past. If Dark Matter was their debut, and you had no prior frame of reference, then the difference between their creative processes as a vehicle for sales becomes plainly obvious.

bollocks

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[stip]

id probably buy it

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[oneway23]

As if the integrity meter has somehow seismically swung from Fugazi over to Katy Perry.

They were never Fugazi to begin with, but tits aside, there’s not much difference between what they’re doing now and what Katy Perry has been doing her entire career, which is sourcing musical ideas from others, and abandoning any measure of subtlety, to sell tickets and merch.

Both their artistic and commercial (ticket program) integrity have in fact taken a big dive with this project, IMO. I’d be more or less fine with the first one if it didn’t sound like shit. The ticket nonsense is bogus no matter how you try to spin it.

i did not follow what is happening with tickets this tour beyond making my requests. other than the increase in cost what are people upset about?


‘sourcing musical ideas from others’ is you projecting your deep issues with Watt onto the band. Artists work with producers. Producers help craft and shape the music. Its why they matter and why we care who they are

I’ve made numerous posts in the past about the range of ways producers can work with a band, and when (in my mind) it becomes transactional, if not wholly predatory. I’m not gonna repeat them now, but maybe I’ll repurpose them into an 800-page book someday that you can buy on Amazon, then you’ll know they’re legit.

Sadly, not every producer is like Steve Albini, who treats the profession as a contractor would...In an ideal world, they wouldn't all take points with endless residuals, but, Albini's pretty much the only one who sees himself as a plumber.

[Ms Harmless]

Trag, what would you do if you found out that there had been uncredited, meddling, predatory producers getting their dirty mitts on Pearl Jam's material all through their career? what kind of existential crisis would that revelation plunge you into?

[DDWJMUVW]

I take no umbrage with wottman writing on this record.

Guess what? Some of the greatest artists of all time had their producers writing heavily on their best records.

If he helped flesh out, crystallize, and improve the material that became the tracks on DM - then giving him writing credits is a non issue to me. I highly doubt he wrote these in the traditional sense. As I pointed out in the other thread, even a modicum of creative contribution to the track gets you a writing credit. Just ask Dave A….

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[oneway23]

Trag, what would you do if you found out that there had been uncredited, meddling, predatory producers getting their dirty mitts on Pearl Jam's material all through their career? what kind of existential crisis would that revelation plunge you into?

Wottman sounds like the kind of PJ fan who would have been holding up a "Play Breath" banner in '98. I'll take his musical contributions all day long over those of BO'B

[Jaeti]

As if the integrity meter has somehow seismically swung from Fugazi over to Katy Perry.

They were never Fugazi to begin with, but tits aside, there’s not much difference between what they’re doing now and what Katy Perry has been doing her entire career, which is sourcing musical ideas from others, and abandoning any measure of subtlety, to sell tickets and merch.

Both their artistic and commercial (ticket program) integrity have in fact taken a big dive with this project, IMO. I’d be more or less fine with the first one if it didn’t sound like shit. The ticket nonsense is bogus no matter how you try to spin it.

i did not follow what is happening with tickets this tour beyond making my requests. other than the increase in cost what are people upset about?


‘sourcing musical ideas from others’ is you projecting your deep issues with Watt onto the band. Artists work with producers. Producers help craft and shape the music. Its why they matter and why we care who they are

I’ve made numerous posts in the past about the range of ways producers can work with a band, and when (in my mind) it becomes transactional, if not wholly predatory. I’m not gonna repeat them now, but maybe I’ll repurpose them into an 800-page book someday that you can buy on Amazon, then you’ll know they’re legit.

This is getting weird.

[WaitingForBluey]

Wtf, since when did trag become so damn insufferable?

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[stip]

in the meantime what we know is the following

1. The band asked Watt to produce their album based on Eddie’s positive experiences working with him
2. They wrote songs as a unit rather than bringing in near complete compositions
3. The band was very proud of the outcome
4. The band has said that Watt has a deep knowledge of their catalog and would use it to help communicate musical ideas to the band during the writing and recording
5. The one song we have heard thus far has roots in many other moments from the bands history
6. Watt was considered a significant enough collaborator that he was given some writing credits


Conclusions that can be speculatively drawn from this include:

1. Watt was given a writing credit because the band thought he was a collaberative partner in the process and wanted to recognize that (moreso than past producers)
2. Watt insisited he be given one (unlike past producers - really BoB is the only one with the clout to have demanded this)

and less likely

3. The band went to Watt to ask him to write them some hit songs with top 40 potential. that would be the outcome you seem to be leaning towards (I am not trying to strawman you - if there is more to it then please elaborate). Or Pealr Jam are a bunch of doddering old men being taken advantage of by a slick producer (predatory is a strong adjective) But there doesnt seem to be evidence supporting that in pearl jam’s actions beyond the writing credit itself . This seems to be where you are, and other than a deep, abiding, and documented dislike of Watt Im not sure how you got there