Dark Matter (song)

[oneway23]

yeah, no worries... truce (is that how you spell that?); when my brain is conflicting with another brain over a subject I have a tendency to conflate anyone else adjacent to them and just kinda smoosh you

still, the worst a major rock band has sounded since 92 IS a wild thing to say

No worries... I'm often easily smooshable

Now....THAT is a wild thing to say, even for a seasoned troller.

Oasis' ...What's the Story came out after 1992, so I know this is inaccurate

You wanna see how fast I can kill a conversation and ruin a mood? Let's start talking about the dynamic range compression and peak limiting on THAT one...good lord, how they would scatter!

[Ms Harmless]

yeah, no worries... truce (is that how you spell that?); when my brain is conflicting with another brain over a subject I have a tendency to conflate anyone else adjacent to them and just kinda smoosh you

still, the worst a major rock band has sounded since 92 IS a wild thing to say

No worries... I'm often easily smooshable

Now....THAT is a wild thing to say, even for a season troller.

Oasis' ...What's the Story came out after 1992, so I know this is inaccurate

You wanna see how fast I can kill a conversation and ruin a mood? Let's start talking about the dynamic range compression and peak limiting on THAT one...good lord, how they would scatter!

the loudness wars is Oasis' fault? that's a band wagon I could jump on

in all honesty, when you say "lack of dynamic range" I can hear what you mean, and how common it is in modern music; it helps the phone listen, but detracts from the headphone listen compared to those older bands

[Ms Harmless]

I think Dark Matter sounds a million times better than Lightning Bolt, but Gigaton sounded probably two million times better; we'll have to see what the album brings

[oneway23]

in all honesty, when you say "lack of dynamic range" I can hear what you mean, and how common it is in modern music; it helps the phone listen, but detracts from the headphone listen compared to those older bands

This is 100% it, for me...You've wonderfully boiled down the crux of my "issue" into a single sentence, so, thank you.

I get that it cuts through all of the outdoor commuter noise and all that. I see the purpose it serves. it's just hurts my heart and soul LOL

I need natural room dynamics! The decay of a snare drum, the warm, rounded thrum of a bass. I live for those details.

I think Dark Matter sounds a million times better than Lightning Bolt, but Gigaton sounded probably two million times better; we'll have to see what the album brings

Not my favorite album, but, Riot Act was such an incredibly produced record...Crackling with dynamics.
Lightning Bolt is a great example of a sterile sounding record. No peaks, no valleys, just everything...all at once.
Gigaton is a good example of a great balance between the practicalities of needing to produce an album for the present era and naturally capturing a band doing its thing.

[Ms Harmless]

in all honesty, when you say "lack of dynamic range" I can hear what you mean, and how common it is in modern music; it helps the phone listen, but detracts from the headphone listen compared to those older bands

This is 100% it, for me...You've wonderfully boiled down the crux of my "issue" into a single sentence, so, thank you.

I get that it cuts through all of the outdoor commuter noise and all that. I see the purpose it serves. it's just hurts my heart and soul LOL

I need natural room dynamics! The decay of a snare drum, the natural warm, rounded thrum of a bass[.

I think Dark Matter sounds a million times better than Lightning Bolt, but Gigaton sounded probably two million times better; we'll have to see what the album brings

Not my favorite album, but, Riot Act was such an incredibly produced record...Crackling with dynamics.
Lightning Bolt is a great example of a sterile sounding record. No peaks, no valleys, just everything...all at once.
Gigaton is a good example of a great balance between the practicalities of needing to produce an album for the present era and naturally capturing a band doing its thing.

agreed on all counts (except that Riot Act is my favourite Pearl Jam album, in 2024)

[Ms Harmless]

matters are lightening in here

[oneway23]

agreed on all counts (except that Riot Act is my favourite Pearl Jam album, in 2024)

Not ashamed to say, I love 'em all (even LB). We're talking a matter of small degrees for me in trying to separate them.
I sincerely hope Dark Matter takes the top spot in both of our lists come this time next year.

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[Kevin Davis]

Just got new headphones. Let's see how Dark Matter sounds! I bet my ears won't hurt.

Serious question: have you been to a ton of shows and/or played in bands, and if so, have you consistently worn ear plugs?

I've been to maybe a dozen shows in my life. No ear plugs.

I’ve taken abnormally good care of my hearing, I think. And still there’s some hearing loss.

I genuinely wonder what the average hearing quality is for a bunch of 40-something rock fans on this board, and to what extent that plays into some of this stuff.

I'm not even sure what people mean when they say some music hurts their ears. Like, is it similar to an earache? Even after a really loud show I don't think my ears have ever hurt, maybe I can't hear well for a while afterwards, and may be a little discombobulated, but not ever really "hurting."

I have not experienced the “ears hurting” thing that some people describe — for me, it is more or a sensory/stimulus overload-type feeling, not dissimilar to being in a restaurant or at a party where there is loud music playing, lights flashing, people crowding you, etc., and multiple people trying to carry on conversations with you regardless. On more natural-sounding recordings you can feel the space, the air, etc. between the instruments, and you can breathe in that space; on a recording like this, all the spaces between the instruments are blended together artificially with effects, and even at moderate volumes there is a loss of what I have sometimes seen called “headroom,” and at loud volumes I find it feels a bit like the room is closing in.

I can adjust my environment, my expectations, etc., to meet the recording halfway, especially for a band like PJ where my mind can fill in some of intangibles that the production is trying unwittingly to drown out. But in the end these aren’t records I find myself going back to a lot. They just aren’t inherently enjoyable to hear the way some other records are.

I am sure some of this is just down to individual biology/psychology. Some people go to loud, crowded bars/parties multiple times a week and find it not exhausting but fulfilling — they simply don’t register it as the same type of experience.

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[oneway23]

I have not experienced the “ears hurting” thing that some people describe — for me, it is more or a sensory/stimulus overload-type feeling, not dissimilar to being in a restaurant or at a party where there is loud music playing, lights flashing, people crowding you, etc., and multiple people trying to carry on conversations with you regardless. On more natural-sounding recordings you can feel the space, the air, etc. between the instruments, and you can breathe in that space; on a recording like this, all the spaces between the instruments are blended together artificially with effects, and even at moderate volumes there is a loss of what I have sometimes seen called “headroom,” and at loud volumes I find it fees a bit like the room is closing in.

I can adjust my environment, my expectations, etc., to meet the recording halfway, especially for a band like PJ where my mind can fill in some of intangibles that the production is trying unwittingly to drown out. But in the end these aren’t records I find myself going back to a lot. They just aren’t inherently enjoyable to hear the way some other records are.

I am sure some of this is just down to individual biology/psychology. Some people go to loud, crowded bars/parties multiple times a week and find it not exhausting but fulfilling — they simply don’t register it as the same type of experience.

This is a wonderful explanation, Kevin. Thank you. I'd almost classify it as a form of ear and/or brain fatigue. My wife and I have a phrase for this..It's a bit outdated now, and, it shows our age, but, we refer to this as "mall head."

The noise and crowd becomes overwhelming after a while. Perhaps too much sensory input, as you've described so eloquently.

[DDWJMUVW]

Lol ok yeah this is just way too serious to address.

And yet...

Nobody is “correct” or not. This is art. Crack a beer and enjoy the tunes man. I’m only saying I don’t understand the displeasure that some have alluded to.

Look, I just happened to respond to your post, but, it's really a reaction to the "I don't hear it, so why are we still talking about this?" crowd. Just because people don't have experience in what to listen for doesn't mean it's not a vital aspect of the end result.

I know people that listen to albums and couldn't care less about lyrics. I'm not one of 'em, but, people on here write novellas interpreting lyrics...To me, the production is all part and parcel of the same thing.

I've been around bands since high school and have friends who are producers and engineers, and who routinely release records, working with people we would all know. I don't get to meet many of them or see my out of state friends all that often, sadly, but, we talk about production elements for albums via chat and on the phone all of the time...A little of that type of dialogue bled in here for a bit ...so what?

Not hurting anyone...Killing time before a band we all love puts out a new gem...We're all just learning from each other, after all.

It’s fine. Wires crossed. I enjoy the discourse.

Saying I don’t understand the issues some have with the production of this track is me just saying, I think it sounds great. To each their own of course.

My “way too serious” comment was precipitated by what I thought might be a bit of defensiveness coming from your end but obviously I misread.

I’m all for hearing different opinions, unless the opinion is that LB is a good record

Cheers!

[oneway23]

I’m all for hearing different opinions, unless the opinion is that LB is a good record

Cheers!

LB will be well-regarded in time, damn it! LOL

Thanks for not being a jerk about my annoyingly pedantic obsessiveness , I appreciate it

[oftheearth]

I meant the band "upgraded" the song by reusing its unique tremolo, so they wont play two songs using a similar effect. (and dark matter will be played at every show.)

I listened to riot act in the car today, and its perfect.

welcome.

Running a guitar through a drum machine (You Are) and using a tremolo guitar effect (Dark Matter) are very different things.

[digster]

I have not experienced the “ears hurting” thing that some people describe — for me, it is more or a sensory/stimulus overload-type feeling, not dissimilar to being in a restaurant or at a party where there is loud music playing, lights flashing, people crowding you, etc., and multiple people trying to carry on conversations with you regardless. On more natural-sounding recordings you can feel the space, the air, etc. between the instruments, and you can breathe in that space; on a recording like this, all the spaces between the instruments are blended together artificially with effects, and even at moderate volumes there is a loss of what I have sometimes seen called “headroom,” and at loud volumes I find it fees a bit like the room is closing in.

I can adjust my environment, my expectations, etc., to meet the recording halfway, especially for a band like PJ where my mind can fill in some of intangibles that the production is trying unwittingly to drown out. But in the end these aren’t records I find myself going back to a lot. They just aren’t inherently enjoyable to hear the way some other records are.

I am sure some of this is just down to individual biology/psychology. Some people go to loud, crowded bars/parties multiple times a week and find it not exhausting but fulfilling — they simply don’t register it as the same type of experience.

This is a wonderful explanation, Kevin. Thank you. I'd almost classify it as a form of ear and/or brain fatigue. My wife and I have a phrase for this..It's a bit outdated now, and, it shows our age, but, we refer to this as "mall head."

The noise and crowd becomes overwhelming after a while. Perhaps too much sensory input, as you've described so eloquently.

I think the issue I find (and this is by no means a problem unique to the Dark Matter studio take), is that this kind of production paradoxically makes songs sound weaker and tinier than they should.

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[Strat]

I meant the band "upgraded" the song by reusing its unique tremolo, so they wont play two songs using a similar effect. (and dark matter will be played at every show.)

I listened to riot act in the car today, and its perfect.

welcome.

Running a guitar through a drum machine (You Are) and using a tremolo guitar effect (Dark Matter) are very different things.

Spenno made some good points about the rhythm of the tremolo. Could be a tremolo plus a rhythmic gate, which would be similar to what’s happening on You Are, while not quite the exact same

Sounds like to me the gate is on that meaty fuzz

[Ms Harmless]

I meant the band "upgraded" the song by reusing its unique tremolo, so they wont play two songs using a similar effect. (and dark matter will be played at every show.)

I listened to riot act in the car today, and its perfect.

welcome.

Running a guitar through a drum machine (You Are) and using a tremolo guitar effect (Dark Matter) are very different things.

they're not gonna run anything through a drum machine for a live performance; for most people in that audience the effect will sound the same

[oftheearth]

Whenever I've heard them play You Are live, it sounds like they incorporate some kind of backing track for the intro and outro part which is very drum machine effect heavy. It's very abrupt if you listen closely.

[E.H. Ruddock]

The DotC thread, to date, only has 149 pages. It is a better song than this one and it isn't even close. We're already at 146 pages for Dark Matter. Gross.