Running

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[Ms Harmless]

Stip was correct, Running sounds good followed by Dark Matter; say what you want about the production values, at least there's a consistency here

Virtually every album in the world has consistent production values, that’s exactly what mastering is for

yes thank you Trag, but you did say "virtually", correct? so I can hear when they don't; and I said this because there are two Pearl Jam albums I feel the opposite way about (LB and BS, but particularly LB), and my personal wish for this album is simply that it is more consistent in sound than those two

LB and BS have the same production values throughout as well. For examples of albums with diverse production elements, I’d look to the Beastie Boys, Beck, Kendrick Lamar’s TPAB…all of which went through the same mastering process to create a cohesive sound.

Trag, I disagree that those PJ albums I mentioned sound that way, regardless of what objective, scientific, observable processes those albums went through, and despite the fact they let you sit in on the sessions

You sound like a lunatic. It would be way easier for you to just say “I don’t really get how production works, but some of the songs on BS and LB sound ok to me, and some don’t.”

My point is that in suggesting the consistency in production values between Dark Matter and Running is somehow a mark of quality, you’ve in fact made no point at all.

fuck off Trag, nowhere did I say "mark of quality"

Don’t try to gaslight me into thinking I somehow misconstrued your comment quite at the top of this disgusting pyramid. We all know what you meant. Just admit you’re wrong.

"we all" aren't being the dickhead you are being

Review this entire exchange maybe after you’ve slept on it, and I think you’ll find that I’m being respectfully pedantic, and you’re being illogically rude.

I'm being very calculatedly and deliberately rude at this point

[Ms Harmless]

the problem is that you think people disliking you and the way you treat people demonstrates a lack of intelligence

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[Ms Harmless]

Stip was correct, Running sounds good followed by Dark Matter; say what you want about the production values, at least there's a consistency here

Virtually every album in the world has consistent production values, that’s exactly what mastering is for

yes thank you Trag, but you did say "virtually", correct? so I can hear when they don't; and I said this because there are two Pearl Jam albums I feel the opposite way about (LB and BS, but particularly LB), and my personal wish for this album is simply that it is more consistent in sound than those two

LB and BS have the same production values throughout as well. For examples of albums with diverse production elements, I’d look to the Beastie Boys, Beck, Kendrick Lamar’s TPAB…all of which went through the same mastering process to create a cohesive sound.

Trag, I disagree that those PJ albums I mentioned sound that way, regardless of what objective, scientific, observable processes those albums went through, and despite the fact they let you sit in on the sessions

You sound like a lunatic. It would be way easier for you to just say “I don’t really get how production works, but some of the songs on BS and LB sound ok to me, and some don’t.”

My point is that in suggesting the consistency in production values between Dark Matter and Running is somehow a mark of quality, you’ve in fact made no point at all.

fuck off Trag, nowhere did I say "mark of quality"

Don’t try to gaslight me into thinking I somehow misconstrued your comment quite at the top of this disgusting pyramid. We all know what you meant. Just admit you’re wrong.

"we all" aren't being the dickhead you are being

Review this entire exchange maybe after you’ve slept on it, and I think you’ll find that I’m being respectfully pedantic, and you’re being illogically rude.

I'm being very calculatedly and deliberately rude at this point

While completely failing to defend any logical context to your initial statement

I don't need to "defend" anything, this is something fundamental about opinions that you fail to understand

[Strat]

I’m beginning to think that some folks who have described these new songs as “too loud” or a “wall of mush” have a vastly different musical background than I. Of course while PJ was the first love, I spent a lot of time in the mid/late 90s and early 2000s listening to east coast punk bands (saves the day, H2O, mxpx, millencolin - Swedish - etc). You want heavy? Those bands are actually heavy. So to me the new DM songs are not offensive

It's not really about the music style, about whether it's "heavy". You mentioned Millencolin. Listen to Pennybridge Pioneers. You can really hear the tone of the guitars, there's colors to it, everything sounds well balanced, nuances in playing really shine through even though the music is aggressive. You can turn the volume up and it sounds good, like you're walking closer towards the band instead of sticking your ear in the PA. With "Running" you turn the volume up and it just sounds like a bunch of white noise, abrasive and indistinct

Exactly. And this is a pretty great fun as hell song with the band playing their ass of. It didn't need this shit production to over enforce the fact they can still RAWK. I'm fine, nay, thrilled with pj still giving me the juice, but they're naturally good at it.

These songs don't need to be produced so harshly.

[Jorge]

"You sound like a lunatic" isn't very respectful

[Ms Harmless]

the problem is that you think people disliking you and the way you treat people demonstrates a lack of intelligence

Not at all. I’m just watching you flail around out of reactionary emotion instead of just saying “yeah that first post didn’t make much sense.” It’s kind of fascinating how stubborn you’re being about it.

my first post made perfect sense

stop telling people that their disagreements with you are a fundamental fault in their ability to communicate

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[Tj]

I don't mean this in a negative way. I am really into running. The one think that strikes me is it feels like a retooling of a formula that has gotten a bit tired. It sounds fresh . It leans into a different punk influence a little less Ramones a little bit more Motor Head. I can also listen to each Parr and get the why of each players choices and parts. I enjoy how Mike is kind of bouncing around kind of floundering right under the surface. I feel like I am being set up for a Social d style solo the out of nowhere comes a tsunami alarm .

i think you hit on something that really appeals to me - the fact that at every point of the song each band member is making a choice - that there is space within the song for them to play, and in a way that reflects the reality of a song being co-constructed around them. THIS is what I wanted, what capturing the live experience means to me, and what the band being in a room together should feel like. this is much more important (to me) then cleaner instrument separation

I would still like to hear and feel the room a bit more.
Also it's not about loud amps. Brian May recorded with Vox ac30 at 11. Lindsey Buckingham was using hiwatt lead40s with a booster and they would last about 20 min. Nothing off Rumors is in your face. This is all levels at the board. Maybe current techniques and software create lazy producers and engineers. This coupled with albums not making money. Studio time has to be cut.

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[coptheriotact]

I can hear all the natural reverb of the beautiful shangrlia studio

[Ms Harmless]

I said "say what you want about production", at least the sounds of the songs are consistent

absolutely nowhere did I mention mastering; you did; you set up a straw man to pretend you knew what I was trying to say, then you knocked it down, as yet another egotistical thought experiment to prove to RM you're the most intelligent person in the room

if you felt the first post needed more clarification because you weren't entirely sure what I meant, you could have asked me... politely

you want subtlety and nuance in Pearl Jam music but you communicate like Mr. Blobby

[McParadigm]

Stip was correct, Running sounds good followed by Dark Matter; say what you want about the production values, at least there's a consistency here

Virtually every album in the world has consistent production values, that’s exactly what mastering is for

yes thank you Trag, but you did say "virtually", correct? so I can hear when they don't; and I said this because there are two Pearl Jam albums I feel the opposite way about (LB and BS, but particularly LB), and my personal wish for this album is simply that it is more consistent in sound than those two

LB and BS have the same production values throughout as well. For examples of albums with diverse production elements, I’d look to the Beastie Boys, Beck, Kendrick Lamar’s TPAB…all of which went through the same mastering process to create a cohesive sound.

Trag, I disagree that those PJ albums I mentioned sound that way, regardless of what objective, scientific, observable processes those albums went through, and despite the fact they let you sit in on the sessions

You sound like a lunatic. It would be way easier for you to just say “I don’t really get how production works, but some of the songs on BS and LB sound ok to me, and some don’t.”

My point is that in suggesting the consistency in production values between Dark Matter and Running is somehow a mark of quality, you’ve in fact made no point at all.

fuck off Trag, nowhere did I say "mark of quality"

Don’t try to gaslight me into thinking I somehow misconstrued your comment quite at the top of this disgusting pyramid. We all know what you meant. Just admit you’re wrong.

"we all" aren't being the dickhead you are being

Review this entire exchange maybe after you’ve slept on it, and I think you’ll find that I’m being respectfully pedantic, and you’re being illogically rude.

Ms H tried to express an opinion, and you jumped in with an actualllllly statement about the most ancillary aspect of it. The evident point of the original post was clearly “I like the way these two songs sound when you play them together.” And whether the way it was expressed felt valid to YOU is irrelevant. You had zero reason to jump on somebody else’s expression of enjoyment and try to talk them down from it. You had zero reason to think it was important to get them to see that the aesthetic cohesiveness they appreciated is ordinary. You had zero reason to tell this person who is just trying to have fun talking about a thing they like that they sound like a lunatic. What the fuck.

[stip]

some folks also have hyper sensitive ears, apparently.

I am going to crank running and dark matter in my car. its going to be a great commute

Some seem under the impression that the problem is PJ turned their amps up too loud and some listeners can't handle it. That's not really the issue. A mid-tempo or even slow song can suffer from this kind of thing. It's a choice in the production, not in the composition. I'd love it if PJ went really heavy, but this kind of production style makes things sound smaller and tinnier, which I'd imagine is the opposite reaction.

The production is what it is; if I discounted every album that had crappy production, the list of albums I like would be much shorter. So far, the problem for me is both songs have some pretty bland songwriting choices (though that's more of an issue w/ Dark Matter than here).

I did experience the tinnier thing with my airpods, but not with my car or computer headphones. this sounds huge. I get the differentiation concern as I can hear some things in the mix that I imagine could be separated. But it sounds powerful to me, beyond volume

[stip]

BTW, Good and Evil is a much better song

yeah i agree

I THINK I'll prefer Running, but it's close and this is a much better comp then some of the other ones we've floated.

[Ms Harmless]

We’ve already covered facts vs opinions. You said “ say what you want about the production values, at least there's a consistency here.” If I somehow misunderstood the point you were trying to make, then kindly enlighten me.

if you don't understand someone, it is your job to humbly admit that and ask for clarification, instead of marching forward and misconstruing and misrepresenting their feelings, and THEN expecting them to clear up the shit you caused

[Jorge]

"You sound like a lunatic" isn't very respectful

I didn’t say she IS a lunatic!

You're emboldened by being on the right side of the Wottman production debate and you're letting it turn you into a monster