Running

[Val]

When I first heard Lukin, I thought the song was complete garbage
With time I realized its role and place on the album, and I fully expect people to calm their tits and do the same about Running.

With time.

[96583UP]

i wonder if we’ll ever get a song as sincere and touching as ‘All or None’ from this band again

or if everything will be sealed in plastic

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[McParadigm]

i wonder if we’ll ever get a song as sincere and touching as ‘All or None’ from this band again

or if everything will be sealed in plastic

Oh, you know how it is.

It comes, then goes.

[Ms Harmless]

PJ has been selective about the causes they championed from the year dot, and I find a similar selectiveness in their detractors (what they supported "back then" wasn't everything, and what they're seemingly ignoring now -- Ticketmaster -- isn't everything either); I like their music (mostly), they do some cool stuff ("pro*choice!"), they do some questionable stuff ("mosquito bites!")

Humans are flawed. Yes.

I raised this because we're in a time when celebrities are largely supposed to be All Good or All Bad; I'm all about that life in most areas, to me "cancel culture" doesn't exist, its just accountability culture; and I absolutely think there should be people reminding Ed to be accountable (not just to us, but to himself and to his own purported values); but there are other bands and artists and organisations I spend more of that energy on now, personally; I have room for one (1) band in my life that I'm more lenient and forgiving with, and it's Pearl Jam; I spend a lot of my life having to be an activist... and it's no crime to escape (once in a while)

[stip]

And yes of course they’re a charitable band. I don’t think that carries the same weight that it used to

but it would with better production?

[stip]

strat got there first

[Ms Harmless]

PJ has been selective about the causes they championed from the year dot, and I find a similar selectiveness in their detractors (what they supported "back then" wasn't everything, and what they're seemingly ignoring now -- Ticketmaster -- isn't everything either); I like their music (mostly), they do some cool stuff ("pro*choice!"), they do some questionable stuff ("mosquito bites!")

Humans are flawed. Yes.

I raised this because we're in a time when celebrities are largely supposed to be All Good or All Bad; I'm all about that life in most areas, to me "cancel culture" doesn't exist, its just accountability culture; and I absolutely think there should be people reminding Ed to be accountable (not just to us, but to himself and to his own purported values); but there are other bands and artists and organisations I spend more of that energy on now, personally; I have room for one (1) band in my life that I'm more lenient and forgiving with, and it's Pearl Jam; I spend a lot of my life having to be an activist... and it's no crime to escape (once in a while)

so, I 100% support people's anger at Ed and the Pearl Jam's (including Trag's) while acknowledging it doesn't all have to come from me

[Ms Harmless]

When I first heard Lukin, I thought the song was complete garbage
With time I realized its role and place on the album, and I fully expect people to calm their tits and do the same about Running.

With time.

I definitely hope so

[Homeboyd]

I know first hand that they donate a bunch of stuff to be auctioned off for charities…my brother bid on an item at a charity event and then guilted me into paying…so now I’m the proud owner of a Baltimore Orioles helmet signed by Eddie Vedder. I’m also $750 poorer (it was for a good cause so all good).

[tree_]

You will find that running is quite challenging but may be rewarding, if you don't injure yourself getting through it

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[Ms Harmless]

Its kind of like the whole issue with the left leaning political side.

"Im liberal"

"Oh really! pfft, how liberal are you lets fight"

Purity tests destroy progress

ideological purity can be a problem because it excludes people from joining good causes, not because it critiques some people

[stip]

Anger feels like a disproportionate response to someone not having 100% correlation between values and practice, especially as the places where there seems to be deviation or backsliding from past commitments are not commitments they are actively stumping for. We'd be angry at pretty much everyone, ourselves, included, all the time.


The price of concert tickets doesn't feel like the end all/be all of political causes to me, anymore. It would bother me if they were sending out press releases patting themselves on the back for having supremely affordable concerts. There is some daylight between imperfection and hypocrisy


I'm also going to resist the temptation to justify the present by reframing the past.

[Strat]

I know first hand that they donate a bunch of stuff to be auctioned off for charities…my brother bid on an item at a charity event and then guilted me into paying…so now I’m the proud owner of a Baltimore Orioles helmet signed by Eddie Vedder. I’m also $750 poorer (it was for a good cause so all good).

You want orioles gear, ill get you orioles gear! Without paying that much!

[Strat]

Its kind of like the whole issue with the left leaning political side.

"Im liberal"

"Oh really! pfft, how liberal are you lets fight"

Purity tests destroy progress

ideological purity can be a problem because it excludes people from joining good causes, not because it critiques some people

For the record, i never said you cant critique or hold people accountable.

[DDWJMUVW]

I'm working off of memory here, but if I recall the explanation about the expense ticket prices thing on the SOLAT podcast:

1. Yes pearl jam's tickets are more expensive than they used to be, and increased faster than inflation, but they are below what they could be charging and many comparable artists

2. Ticket master does dynamic pricing for a certain percentage of tickets (they keep raising the price to whatever level a fan will pay. So that's where 900 tickets come from, and if no one buys them they go back down)

3. Pearl Jam's number was 10% dynamic pricing, which is on the low end of available seats

4. Ticket master maintains a fan to fan resale (not every artist has this) to support direct resales of tickets with no additional markups

It doesn't make tickets cheaper, but I do recall these explanations taking some of the sting out of that story. This was from a guest knowledgeable about this stuff, but it's the only source I heard

5. They can opt out of dynamic pricing but choose not to

what if you learned that the band didnt make money touring till about 2003/2006. WOuld that change your view about them trying to get some of dat?

Not remotely. They’re all Ultra High Net Worth individuals. And I’m increasingly skeptical of philanthropy as the best way to solve problems, because for the capital elite it holds a tax advantaged line on their portfolio.

How many TVs do these guys need?

I mean, at least two - three i imagine

Trag and Strats friendship about to end when he learns hes about to buy a new 85 inch tv so we have two tvs at the house!

You’re not UHNW though, there are different expectations. These guys have a massive amount of power and seem increasingly disinterested in how they use it.

I’m not sure what the ideal model would look like. Something like the Patagonia purpose trust model id think, where royalties go to a portfolio of green/socially conscious companies to drive growth of solution to big problems. License the songs for big bucks to Hollywood. Running in a Nike ad, with the licensing fee going towards positive impact.

Keep ticket prices fair and pay your fucking poster artists. And stop hogging line time at the vinyl pressing plants, that’s abusive.

You’d be surprised how non esg some “esg” companies are.

I make my living in investment management at one of the top 5 wirehouse firms. ESG isn’t there yet, not even close. But, it’s a great ideal to strive towards so in theory your recommendation comes from the right place.

I would assume the fellas have donor advised funds established and or have utilized things like opportunity zones to both defer cap gains in their portfolios AND do some good.

But again, there is a ton of fine print and many implementation hurdles to cross before your assets actually make a tangible difference.

[stip]

And yes of course they’re a charitable band. I don’t think that carries the same weight that it used to

but it would with better production?

If the music felt like it was springing forth from some authentic place, that would be more compelling to me. It feels the opposite of that, and everything from “we hired the producer who reinvigorates old bands” to “we needed another uptempo number” to “we wrote this thinking about what the fans want to hear” make it clear they’re not interested in communicating anything beyond a desire for relevancy and commercial success. It’s not evil, but it sure is boring.

Are you talking about the music here, or their politics? Or that you are less likely to overlook the politics because you don't find the music as meaningful or authentic as you used to?

The collapse of your fandom is fascinating (I was going to say endlessly fascinating, but there is definitely an endpoint) since if I recall you enjoyed Gigaton. This is one album you turned in advance when you learned who the producer was, and the level of vitriol you have been able to manifest against two songs (and the collateral damage) is kind of remarkable.

[Homeboyd]

I know first hand that they donate a bunch of stuff to be auctioned off for charities…my brother bid on an item at a charity event and then guilted me into paying…so now I’m the proud owner of a Baltimore Orioles helmet signed by Eddie Vedder. I’m also $750 poorer (it was for a good cause so all good).

You want orioles gear, ill get you orioles gear! Without paying that much!

That’s the weird part, I’m from Pittsburgh (Pirates fan unfortunately) so I have no use for an Orioles helmet with EV’s scribble on it lol. It’s proudly being displayed in the back of a closet somewhere.

[Strat]

I know first hand that they donate a bunch of stuff to be auctioned off for charities…my brother bid on an item at a charity event and then guilted me into paying…so now I’m the proud owner of a Baltimore Orioles helmet signed by Eddie Vedder. I’m also $750 poorer (it was for a good cause so all good).

You want orioles gear, ill get you orioles gear! Without paying that much!

That’s the weird part, I’m from Pittsburgh (Pirates fan unfortunately) so I have no use for an Orioles helmet with EV’s scribble on it lol. It’s proudly being displayed in the back of a closet somewhere.

Incredible.