Dark Matter: Official Album Thread

[oneway23]

wasn't "moving at the speed of inspiration", just getting it done and taped, what Ed was saying they were doing during Backspacer and Lightning Bolt? I'm not sure I need any more of that; I want more albums but I also don't think this band does "dashed off" music very well at all

Good point...It simply may not be the best version of them, We'll see how they fared with a similar approach on DM.
Can't come soon enough

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[VinylGuy]

I would love for PJ to be less aware of their released and make more music. Not sure if Neil is the example, the dude is wayyy off sometimes with his albums, but go to the studio for a couple of weeks, mix the thing and release it.

Maybe thats the next chapter of these guys, seems they had a blast in their latest sessions.

[Ms Harmless]

wasn't "moving at the speed of inspiration", just getting it done and taped, what Ed was saying they were doing during Backspacer and Lightning Bolt? I'm not sure I need any more of that; I want more albums but I also don't think this band does "dashed off" music very well at all

Good point...It simply may not be the best version of them, We'll see how they fared with a similar approach on DM.
Can't come soon enough

hopefully everyone playing in the room together is a good bedfellow (?) to working quickly, and we get the best of both worlds

[VinylGuy]

I feel there is a story behind Brendan being left off the band´s world in the last years...from producing a supposedly new album to the band scratching those and making another album with another guy, to being kinda close to Vicky Cornell in the middle of a dispute with Soundgarden with the last album...im sure something happened between them.

I dont know about the Cornell connection but i 100% believe that BOB was left behind because the band was not satisfied with the direction things were headed around the Can't Deny Me/upcoming album stage that never happened stage.

yeah, that too...Jeff kinda talks about it when Gigaton was released, specially with Retrograde´s amazing space jam..¨Brendan would have cut off that jam¨

But still, i think Vicky Cornell pushing Brendan as the producer for SG final album and the band saying no have something to do with Brendan being compeltely outside the band inner circle now.

[Ms Harmless]

wasn't "moving at the speed of inspiration", just getting it done and taped, what Ed was saying they were doing during Backspacer and Lightning Bolt? I'm not sure I need any more of that; I want more albums but I also don't think this band does "dashed off" music very well at all

The limiting factor here is maybe Ed’s approach to songwriting. Some of the very best stuff on Vitalogy and No Code were his early experiences writing songs for the band that didn’t necessarily have an end game in mind; they feel more channeled than composed: Not For You, Immortality (Neil Youngish in a sense), Tremor Christ, I Got Shit, Long Road, Sometimes…he’s never really aiming for a hook with any of these songs.

As time went on, I think he started picking up the guitar with the intention of sounding like another artist: “here’s a Bruce song, here’s an REM song,” etc. it’s had such diminishing returns.

Ironically, we’re back at the “here’s a Pearl Jam song” phase (again), which, ugh.

lol yeah I think that sounds largely true

[oneway23]

they feel more channeled than composed

Well done, sir!

[brisk]

wasn't "moving at the speed of inspiration", just getting it done and taped, what Ed was saying they were doing during Backspacer and Lightning Bolt? I'm not sure I need any more of that; I want more albums but I also don't think this band does "dashed off" music very well at all

The limiting factor here is maybe Ed’s approach to songwriting. Some of the very best stuff on Vitalogy and No Code were his early experiences writing songs for the band that didn’t necessarily have an end game in mind; they feel more channeled than composed: Not For You, Immortality (Neil Youngish in a sense), Tremor Christ, I Got Shit, Long Road, Sometimes…he’s never really aiming for a hook with any of these songs.

As time went on, I think he started picking up the guitar with the intention of sounding like another artist: “here’s a Bruce song, here’s an REM song,” etc. it’s had such diminishing returns.

Ironically, we’re back at the “here’s a Pearl Jam song” phase (again), which, ugh.

Well put.

[McParadigm]

wasn't "moving at the speed of inspiration", just getting it done and taped, what Ed was saying they were doing during Backspacer and Lightning Bolt? I'm not sure I need any more of that; I want more albums but I also don't think this band does "dashed off" music very well at all

The limiting factor here is maybe Ed’s approach to songwriting. Some of the very best stuff on Vitalogy and No Code were his early experiences writing songs for the band that didn’t necessarily have an end game in mind; they feel more channeled than composed: Not For You, Immortality (Neil Youngish in a sense), Tremor Christ, I Got Shit, Long Road, Sometimes…he’s never really aiming for a hook with any of these songs.

As time went on, I think he started picking up the guitar with the intention of sounding like another artist: “here’s a Bruce song, here’s an REM song,” etc. it’s had such diminishing returns.

Ironically, we’re back at the “here’s a Pearl Jam song” phase (again), which, ugh.

I really think that the channeling kind of stopped on its own, and he replaced it with measured songwriting as a necessity. He started writing with a target in mind, and for better or worse that target has often been “find a way to reward the listener for paying attention to this song.” Find an interesting turn of phrase. Find a good melody. Find an energy level that he finds rewarding to listen to, and pass it on. And that’s where (and why) Pearl Jam stopped breaking its own rules, and started mostly just trying to sound like Pearl Jam….or other artists.

EV was never a guy with a clear, original artistic vision. He was a séance guy. He channeled, and something just….happened. So when it came time to stop channeling and write with a purpose, of course he looked to the guys he had always admired. Of course he wrote songs that imitated them.

I’m sure it felt gratifying to discover the ability to do that. S/T certainly abounds with a feeling of “look what I can do.” Is the new stuff the same as the channeling thing? No. But I can’t fault someone for not getting struck by the lightning bolt

Spoiler: show

[DDWJMUVW]

Some very interesting analysis here, but I think it all needs to be tempered a bit with this:

I’ll bet, like many many other processes - if you get a look at things from the inside, the way the sausage is made is usually less impressive.

That is to say the following: I think at this point (and even in the early records somewhat), the ONLY goal is just to go in and come up with 11-14 marketable songs that can pass as sounding like PJ. I really don’t believe there is much strategic direction as a whole or even individually. Someone has a part, and it builds as other guys add their color of paint. There is some semblance of democracy in order to keep the peace. But at the end of the day, I don’t think they write with anything in mind other than “let’s try to hammer out something we can agree on”. Those collaborations end up as PJ songs - whatever that sounds like in the end. Ed, Stone, Mike, Jeff, and Matt agreeing on 3/4 minutes of a composition IS Pearl Jam.

As much as these guys may love getting together and writing/recording I theory, it also has to feel like work as well. Both are likely true. So I totally believe that once they are getting close on a track, they probably just drag it across the finish line in most cases.

You could say that’s a cynical view but, I’m not so sure. Their camaraderie and love of music gets them together even if it feels like work in the moment.

I really like that Wottman got them together physically from cradle to grave in the process (as opposed to previous methods over the last few records). I really believe it will yield results we like (no pun….). I have no serious issues with the production on the two we’ve heard, and so thus far, it’s all sounded good to me. If these are weaker tracks on DM, I might really adore this one.

[McParadigm]

I agree with all of that, as well

[Strat]

I think at some point, any person, songwriter or otherwise, just kind of does what they do. They stop evolving. I think ed still writes inspired music (see earthling) and music that he is excited about but it just depends on if you, the listener, are sick of it or not.

i think, like trag said, Ed was a "better" writer when he didnt know what he was doing. Still figuring out what the guitar does and can do. I think the entire band was better as well. When you start leaning into "what makes a good song a good song" and look towards guys like Bruce, Petty/whoever....you start to see a Formula that has worked.....which can feel often times uninspired compared to throwing weird pieces at the wall like Grievance.

[Monkey_Driven]

I think at some point, any person, songwriter or otherwise, just kind of does what they do. They stop evolving. I think ed still writes inspired music (see earthling) and music that he is excited about but it just depends on if you, the listener, are sick of it or not.

i think, like trag said, Ed was a "better" writer when he didnt know what he was doing. Still figuring out what the guitar does and can do. I think the entire band was better as well. When you start leaning into "what makes a good song a good song" and look towards guys like Bruce, Petty/whoever....you start to see a Formula that has worked.....which can feel often times uninspired compared to throwing weird pieces at the wall like Grievance.

There is still some experimentation in PJ's music. Ed in particular seems to be very interested in breaking free from the verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus structure in his PJ contributions. Look at DoTC, Seven O'Clock, WES, and SBWM from Gigaton for example.

[Strat]

I think at some point, any person, songwriter or otherwise, just kind of does what they do. They stop evolving. I think ed still writes inspired music (see earthling) and music that he is excited about but it just depends on if you, the listener, are sick of it or not.

i think, like trag said, Ed was a "better" writer when he didnt know what he was doing. Still figuring out what the guitar does and can do. I think the entire band was better as well. When you start leaning into "what makes a good song a good song" and look towards guys like Bruce, Petty/whoever....you start to see a Formula that has worked.....which can feel often times uninspired compared to throwing weird pieces at the wall like Grievance.

There is still some experimentation in PJ's music. Ed in particular seems to be very interested in breaking free from the verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus structure in his PJ contributions. Look at DoTC, Seven O'Clock, WES, and SBWM from Gigaton for example.

I love Ed

[McParadigm]

Gigaton absolutely feels to me like the first time in a long while that he was playing with his muse rather than chasing it

[Jaeti]

I agree with all of that, as well

[Clem Halibut]

There's an old saying in the biz

"When you think...you stink"

Not that you shouldn't put any thought into your art...but overthinking something, or letting an idea brew too long, can have a negative impact; causing your art to lose it's edge or come across as smooth, slick & stagnant.

This era of PJ has certainly produced some great songs, but for the most part, the last 20 years or so...or at least Post Riot Act...have felt very deliberate and overthought.
Like a band trying to either sound like itself, or sound like someone else.
In the worst cases it's come across as very forced & constructed

Gigaton for the most part was a welcomed departure from that though...
It felt like for the first time in a very long time that the band took some risks in their songwriting, and looked to move forward rather than get back or "return to form".

All the press I've read regarding Dark Matter, has again eluded to an album that is some "return to form"
I can only hope that what that means is the band approached the songwriting process as they did back in the early days...standing around in a circle and jamming
I really hope that is what that means as opposed to a generic collection of songs with glued together callbacks to much better songs in their catalog.

I guess we'll find out soon.

[Kevin Davis]

The limiting factor here is maybe Ed’s approach to songwriting. Some of the very best stuff on Vitalogy and No Code were his early experiences writing songs for the band that didn’t necessarily have an end game in mind; they feel more channeled than composed

EV was never a guy with a clear, original artistic vision. He was a séance guy. He channeled, and something just….happened. So when it came time to stop channeling and write with a purpose, of course he looked to the guys he had always admired. Of course he wrote songs that imitated them.

Early on, I don't think Ed really had the technical skill set to write by anything other than feel; songs like "Not For You" and "Corduroy" and "Sometimes" (and even things that feel a bit harmonically richer, like "Around the Bend" and "Dead Man") feel to me like someone with little to no formal musical education picking up an instrument and feeling around using the handful of chord shapes, note patterns, etc., that are familiar and comfortable to them, until they happen upon something that just kind of instinctively works. This feels mysterious and cosmic and emotionally poignant. But as you repeat the exercise, and realize that certain components of composion work the same way every time, that certain note combinations repeatedly evoke similar emotional resonances, etc., the layers of mystery gradually peel away, and you realize you're really just discovering the language of music. You realize that the Em/D chord progression that makes up the core of "Immortality" wasn't a gift from the universe, but rather a simple, common chord pairing that sounds so good (and is used so often) because both chords are comprised of notes that make sense together in the pentatonic scale. Eventually, your writing becomes driven by what you anticipate going in will work, as opposed to what you accidentally discover works via the process.

I think there is some mutual exclusivity to both sides of this process; you can get songs from each mindset/approach that you can't get from the other, and both approaches are limiting in ways that the other is not. A song like "Not For You" would likely not be written by someone with the musical education of 2024 Eddie, as it would not be intellectually or artistically satisfying, because the creative method is so rudimentary (i.e. make one chord shape and slide it up and down the guitar); likewise, a song like "Man of the Hour" would probably be a bit out of reach for someone who was just moving one chord shape around the guitar, to say nothing of the growth in emotional maturity within the writing. I think Eddie has gone through this process personally, but more significantly I think the band has gone through it collectively -- Stone, for example, wrote virtually all of the music on Ten with zero knowledge of where a singer might take it, or even who the singer might be in the first place. So there are these levels of discovery happening individually, and then again collectively when it's all put together. But, somewhat tragicomically, the more a band does it, the harder it becomes to do; every time out, every record, every new song, the band members learn what to expect from each other, all while they're piecing together their own formal and less instinctive senses for what does and doesn't "work" from a purely technical standpoint. There is a lot of good that can come from this, and certainly when you get to the point that PJ is at now, it probably bodes extremely well for them being able to continue making music in a way that is healthy and enjoyable. But artistically, it can lead to some stagnation.

This viewpoint seems to romanticize blissful ignorance in composition, and it isn't meant to. Many artists have continued to chase that mystery despite amassing a more robust technical toolkit. And don't get me wrong, I don't think Eddie is currently operating at classical composer levels of music theory or anything -- he still comes across as a bit of a rube in some regards, and perhaps exists a bit in a weird space where he has just enough knowledge to get in there and fuck things up, but not quite enough for it to be a genuine strength (if that makes sense).

*Looks like others have said roughly the same thing, but…here it is anyway

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[chadisme417]

The limiting factor here is maybe Ed’s approach to songwriting. Some of the very best stuff on Vitalogy and No Code were his early experiences writing songs for the band that didn’t necessarily have an end game in mind; they feel more channeled than composed

EV was never a guy with a clear, original artistic vision. He was a séance guy. He channeled, and something just….happened. So when it came time to stop channeling and write with a purpose, of course he looked to the guys he had always admired. Of course he wrote songs that imitated them.

Early on, I don't think Ed really had the technical skill set to write by anything other than feel; songs like "Not For You" and "Corduroy" and "Sometimes" (and even things that feel a bit harmonically richer, like "Around the Bend" and "Dead Man") feel to me like someone with little to no formal musical education picking up an instrument and feeling around using the handful of chord shapes, note patterns, etc., that are familiar and comfortable to them, until they happen upon something that just kind of instinctively works. It feels mysterious and cosmic and emotionally poignant. But as you repeat the exercise, and realize that certain components of composion work the same way every time, that certain note combinations repeatedly evoke similar emotional resonances, etc., the layers of mystery gradually peel away, and you realize you're really just discovering the language of music. You realize that the Em/D chord progression that makes up the core of "Immortality" wasn't a gift from the universe, but rather a simple, common chord pairing that sounds so good (and is used so often) because they're comprised of notes that make sense together in the pentatonic scale. Eventually, your writing becomes driven by what you what you anticipate going in will work, as opposed to what you accidentally discover works via the process.

I think there is some mutual exclusivity to both sides of this process; you can get songs from each mindset/approach that you can't get from the other, and both approaches are limiting in ways that the other is not. A song like "Not For You" would likely not be written by someone with the musical education of 2024 Eddie, as it would not be intellectually or artistically satisfying, because the creative method is so rudimentary (i.e. make one chord shape and slide it up and down the guitar); likewise, a song like "Man of the Hour" would probably be a bit out of reach for someone who was just moving one chord shape around the guitar, to say nothing of the growth in emotional maturity within the writing. I think Eddie has gone through this process personally, but more significantly I think the band has gone through it collectively -- Stone, for example, wrote virtually all of the music on Ten with zero knowledge of where a singer might take it, or even who the singer might be in the first place. So there are these levels of discovery happening individually, and then again collectively when it's all put together. But, somewhat tragicomically, the more a band does it, the harder it becomes to do; every time out, every record, every new song, the band members learn what to expect from each other, all while they're piecing together their own formal and less instinctive senses for what does and doesn't "work" from a purely technical standpoint. There is a lot of good that can come from this, and certainly when you get to the point that PJ is at now, it probably bodes extremely well for them being able to continue making music in a way that is healthy and enjoyable. But artistically, it can lead to some stagnation.

This viewpoint seems to romanticize blissful ignorance in composition, and it isn't meant to. Many artists have continued to chase that mystery despite amassing a more robust technical toolkit. And don't get me wrong, I don't think Eddie is currently operating at classical composer levels of music theory or anything -- he still comes across as a bit of a rube in some regards, and perhaps exists a bit in a weird space where he has just enough knowledge to get in there and fuck things up, but not quite enough for it to be a genuine strength (if that makes sense).

*Looks like others have said roughly the same thing, but…here it is anyway

This is quite honestly a wonderful read and legitimate perspective.