The God topic

[elliseamos]

I didn't broach the topic, but somehow at work we got to religion and someone asked me mine and I answered atheist/ agnostic. At which my rather conservative coworker just kept repeating something about how I should be smarter than that, and brought up the claim that humans are descended from monkeys and how that is (presumably) preposterous. I really didn't push back and tried to disengage but, yikes. He was chiding more than seriously arguing, but still it was a bit awkward. I feel he could have gotten his point across within the first three utterances of, "I thought you were smarter than that".

now imagine the roles were reversed and you were chiding him about his faith, would you still have a job?

Considering that he and I have the same position and that management is French Canadian, I have no doubt that they would side with me. Perhaps they would have some sort of séance to cleanse the building after his firing or something. I realize this is not typical, but the French Canadians are especially godless from what I gather.

there's a Sodom & Gomorrah joke in here, let me see if i can figure it out...

Our building is LEED certified, if that is enough to dispel YHWH's wrath.

ugh, what a racket that stamp is.

[simple schoolboy]

I didn't broach the topic, but somehow at work we got to religion and someone asked me mine and I answered atheist/ agnostic. At which my rather conservative coworker just kept repeating something about how I should be smarter than that, and brought up the claim that humans are descended from monkeys and how that is (presumably) preposterous. I really didn't push back and tried to disengage but, yikes. He was chiding more than seriously arguing, but still it was a bit awkward. I feel he could have gotten his point across within the first three utterances of, "I thought you were smarter than that".

now imagine the roles were reversed and you were chiding him about his faith, would you still have a job?

Considering that he and I have the same position and that management is French Canadian, I have no doubt that they would side with me. Perhaps they would have some sort of séance to cleanse the building after his firing or something. I realize this is not typical, but the French Canadians are especially godless from what I gather.

there's a Sodom & Gomorrah joke in here, let me see if i can figure it out...

Our building is LEED certified, if that is enough to dispel YHWH's wrath.

ugh, what a racket that stamp is.

For the purposes of our conversation, I'm only concerned about what YHWH and his prophet Al Gore have to say about it.

[elliseamos]

I didn't broach the topic, but somehow at work we got to religion and someone asked me mine and I answered atheist/ agnostic. At which my rather conservative coworker just kept repeating something about how I should be smarter than that, and brought up the claim that humans are descended from monkeys and how that is (presumably) preposterous. I really didn't push back and tried to disengage but, yikes. He was chiding more than seriously arguing, but still it was a bit awkward. I feel he could have gotten his point across within the first three utterances of, "I thought you were smarter than that".

now imagine the roles were reversed and you were chiding him about his faith, would you still have a job?

Considering that he and I have the same position and that management is French Canadian, I have no doubt that they would side with me. Perhaps they would have some sort of séance to cleanse the building after his firing or something. I realize this is not typical, but the French Canadians are especially godless from what I gather.

there's a Sodom & Gomorrah joke in here, let me see if i can figure it out...

Our building is LEED certified, if that is enough to dispel YHWH's wrath.

ugh, what a racket that stamp is.

For the purposes of our conversation, I'm only concerned about what YHWH and his prophet Al Gore have to say about it.

what did gore have to do with it?

[Harry Lime]

I'm a huge fan of Pope Francis.

[Harry Lime]

First full interview with Pope Francis. Love this guy. And his favorite movie is La Strada.

It's a long interview:

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

[Man in Black]

First full interview with Pope Francis. Love this guy. And his favorite movie is La Strada.

It's a long interview:

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

Seems like a nice enough fellow...

However, we are talking about an educated adult who believes that, during the course of a magical religious ritual, a cracker turns into the body of 2000 year old messiah.

Catholics, I tell ya...

[Harry Lime]

As I've expected, with the increasing number of secular/independent spiritualists on the rise in the young generations, there is rising tide of young Christian generations veering away from radical idelogies, mainly those that are politically motivated. It then begs the question, how will this affect the GOP voting base?

And Pope Francis seems to be the perfect voice in this movement.

Anyway, this article:

http://theweek.com/article/index/250701 ... christians

The GOP is losing young Christians

In any event, this sort of "eye for an eye" theory is a far cry from "do unto others" or "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." And that's why it's harder and harder to be a devout Christian involved in politics these days — even conservative politics.

It wasn't always this way. A couple decades ago, the Christian Coalition provided ground troops for the conservative movement. But today, perhaps having seen what happened to their parents' generation, many young Christians are choosing to be conscientious objectors in the culture wars. Some of this may be due to changing attitudes concerning some hot-button social issues. But there's also a growing sense among young Christians that political involvement, no matter how pure the original motives, is a corrupting force. Christians who attempt to be in this political world, but not of this political world, are constantly faced with ethical conundrums.

This is not a new dilemma. After experiencing a religious conversion, William Wilberforce nearly left the dirty business of politics, but was convinced to use his position in Parliament for good. And indeed, he lived to achieve his life's work of ending the British slave trade. To pull this off, Wilberforce relied on some hardball political tactics. But one could argue that his end justified any parliamentary trickery and cajoling required.

If you've seen the film Lincoln, you're familiar with the kind of horse-trading this required. Wilberforce is proof that spirituality and political involvement are not mutually exclusive. But for every Wilberforce, there are countless other men and women who have been dragged down by political involvement.

Plus, things have changed. People have always made exceptions to their moral code in times of war, and what is politics but a bloodless #war. But today, the warfare is asymmetrical. It's done on Twitter and at political rallies. The line of demarcation between "civilians" and political operatives has vanished. And the fighting never stops.

It's only natural that, once in the fight, conservatives would want to fight fire with fire. Once the other side ups the ante, to engage in unilateral disarmament is to surrender. We see this playing out right now during the government shutdown, where, in an effort to make sure the public feels as much pain as possible, the Obama administration is erecting "barry-cades" to keep people out of open-air memorials to World War I and World War II veterans. Conservatives responded by taking a page from Alinsky, who said, "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon," and mocking them mercilessly. This is effective, but once your game is mockery, it's hard to avoid descending into bitterness.

For Christians, political involvement has a way of breaking bad. The real danger is that over time, it has a coarsening effect, and that our political ranks and church pews alike will be filled full of Walter Whites who will do anything to achieve their goals. They are wise as serpents, but no longer innocent as doves. For what shall it profit a man if he should win the election, but lose his soul?

[broken iris]

Pope Francis called right-wing Christian fundamentalism a sickness:






Huh. I wonder if the Cardinals are starting to regret electing this guy.

[nyquillyn]

Pope Francis called right-wing Christian fundamentalism a sickness:






Huh. I wonder if the Cardinals are starting to regret electing this guy.

Yeah, this guy gets it. I wonder how long it will be until he gets a serious *cough, cough* illness.

[Jorge]

I can't believe how many people are falling for this Francis of Assisi shtick. You guys do know of this man's involvement in the Argentine dictatorship, right? And that he recently called homosexuality part of Satan's plan? Moreover, what actual change has come from all this pseudo-progressive bravado?

[VinylGuy]

I can't believe how many people are falling for this Francis of Assisi shtick. You guys do know of this man's involvement in the Argentine dictatorship, right? And that he recently called homosexuality part of Satan's plan? Moreover, what actual change has come from all this pseudo-progressive bravado?

Great post Jorge. I feel his selection has been a very wise choice from the church to get new people.

[Sarah.]

Jorge, I want to find out a bit more about the things you've mentioned here. I'll have a look myself of course, but if you have any links, I'd greatly appreciate it.

[broken iris]

Jorge, I want to find out a bit more about the things you've mentioned here. I'll have a look myself of course, but if you have any links, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Yeah, the gay thing doesn't bother me as that's a bit too much change to hope for at this point (but hopefully not too much longer), but I am unaware of his history in SA. I'd be interested to learn more.

[nyquillyn]

I can't believe how many people are falling for this Francis of Assisi shtick. You guys do know of this man's involvement in the Argentine dictatorship, right? And that he recently called homosexuality part of Satan's plan? Moreover, what actual change has come from all this pseudo-progressive bravado?

No, no I didn't. I'll go back to the Work-Out Thread now...

[Sarah.]

Well I did a bit of googling and there's quite a lot of stuff on this.

[malice]

I can't believe how many people are falling for this Francis of Assisi shtick. You guys do know of this man's involvement in the Argentine dictatorship, right? And that he recently called homosexuality part of Satan's plan? Moreover, what actual change has come from all this pseudo-progressive bravado?

I assume this is because catholicism is losing followers? appeal to the masses etc?
I doubt any change will come from it - it's the Roman Catholic church, they depend on static dogma and an ignorant parishioner base...

(i was supposed to be Catholic, it never stuck.)

[harmless]

Jorge, I want to find out a bit more about the things you've mentioned here. I'll have a look myself of course, but if you have any links, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Yeah, the gay thing doesn't bother me as that's a bit too much change to hope for at this point (but hopefully not too much longer), but I am unaware of his history in SA. I'd be interested to learn more.

I'm not sure he even said the gay thing. I'd be interested in viewing a source.

[Norah]

I can't believe how many people are falling for this Francis of Assisi shtick. You guys do know of this man's involvement in the Argentine dictatorship, right? And that he recently called homosexuality part of Satan's plan? Moreover, what actual change has come from all this pseudo-progressive bravado?

this

[Jorge]

Jorge, I want to find out a bit more about the things you've mentioned here. I'll have a look myself of course, but if you have any links, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Yeah, the gay thing doesn't bother me as that's a bit too much change to hope for at this point (but hopefully not too much longer), but I am unaware of his history in SA. I'd be interested to learn more.

I'm not sure he even said the gay thing. I'd be interested in viewing a source.

This happened in 2010, right in the heat of the gay marriage debate in Argentina. He was the archbishop of Buenos Aires at the time and fought long and hard against the marriage equality bill. He described it as a scheme by the "Father of Lies" who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God and asked for lawmakers to "not act in error."

More info: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... ights.html

[Norah]

Do you have any material on his involvement in the Argentine dictatorship? I'd be interested in reading more on that.