What movies are you watching?

[Farmer John]

I thought there was a lot to like about The Substance. Could it have been better? Sure. It could have been a great movie, but it wasn’t quite. Why was that, exactly? I don’t know! Why are you asking me? That’s not my job!

[VinylGuy]

It’s pretty clear why it’s not a good movie

[Farmer John]

Or is it?

[Jorge]

For me it's that it's very stupid, obvious, repetitive, and annoying.

I liked the trick shots in the bathroom with the fake mirror, and the cool sound design, but then it's like shut up! Just shut up!

[Farmer John]

Repetitive, yes. It was a lot longer than it needed to be.

But I don’t think it was trying to be smart or subtle. Stupid and obvious movies can still be good, in theory.

[VinylGuy]

I do think its trying to be super smart and cool and ¨ey i made a gore movie with a message!¨ subtle, i guess not. Also the storytelling sucks so fucking hard.

[BurtReynolds]

Is it on streaming yet? I want to be able to fast forward past all the scary parts.

[BurtReynolds]

Excalibur again. How hardcore is that last scene? Too bad the rest of the movie doesn't look like that. So metal

Spoiler: show

[VinylGuy]

Is it on streaming yet? I want to be able to fast forward past all the scary parts.

Mubi.

Also use stremio

[VinylGuy]

Excalibur again. How hardcore is that last scene? Too bad the rest of the movie doesn't look like that. So metal

Spoiler: show

Boorman had such a unique visual style, even Exorcist 2 looks incredible

[Ms Harmless]

I think The Substance has a single thesis, but I don't think it's repetitive or simplistic; it digs deeper into that thesis and draws out more as it goes; as a trans woman I found lots of ways in to interpret the film from my own lens, which doesn't always happen -- these movies can feel exclusive to the cis experience -- so that's nice; it was smart to stay metaphorical and imagistic; the fact that the movie gets louder and louder until it's absurdly and comically screaming is a stylistic choice I don't love in my movies, but I'll defend to the death when done by women (who are subject to more scrutiny than male film-makers more routinely allowed to be angry, bizarre, silly, and "obvious" / "not subtle enough"); Fargeat should be allowed to play around with gross and silly creature effects as much as she wants to, and horror is the place to do it (if anything, it's a weird time even for a horror movie like this -- subtle A24 indie core is all the rage virus (and maybe that's part of why it's done well, gorehounds have been getting bored being asked to quietly think?)

my biggest issue with the movie, apart from that I like to quietly think, is that it wasn't dark, creepy and miserable enough for my taste; it was bright, in your face, *make it fashion* -- just as it should've been; but no matter how gross it got, it never made me squirm or hide behind my cushion

my highest hopes were at the beginning, where she runs into the men's room, and overhears the unhinged, misogynistic comments of her boss on the phone; that was horrifying to me, because I know the feeling

[Ms Harmless]

Repetitive, yes. It was a lot longer than it needed to be.

But I don’t think it was trying to be smart or subtle. Stupid and obvious movies can still be good, in theory.

I'm with you Farmer John!

[Ms Harmless]

oh, the other thing is, on the "it doesn't make you think" subject: I don't think it's supposed to; I think it's supposed to unite the women horror junkies who have these experiences already, and let them communally bathe in the grossness of it, sharing in their thoughts and feelings and traumas; like all good horror movies, it's an exercise in empathy, and I'd suggest that if the messaging seems too simple for you, it might be that you know the message too simply

[Jorge]

There are just too many choices in The Substance that treat the audience like idiots. Demi Moore has received a bouquet of flowers from her old studio with a note that says "thanks for everything! You were great". And then, just in case you missed it, we cut to an extreme close up of the word "WERE." A lot of moments like that that had me rolling my eyes. Including that bathroom scene with the producer guy, where he sounds like a cartoon villain. I realize this heightened style is an aesthetic choice, I just hate it

[Farmer John]

no matter how gross it got, it never made me squirm or hide behind my cushion

The only time I had to do that was when Dennis Quaid was eating those prawns.

[Ms Harmless]

yeah that's fair enough, Jorge; personally I didn't find the guy cartoon, not while guys like Trump and Musk exist

have you seen Revenge? it treats a rape revenge story with a similar style; I liked it but I couldn't love it, never rewatched it, etc.

[Jorge]

no matter how gross it got, it never made me squirm or hide behind my cushion

The only time I had to do that was when Dennis Quaid was eating those prawns.

Yes that was grosser than the climax

[Ms Harmless]

no matter how gross it got, it never made me squirm or hide behind my cushion

The only time I had to do that was when Dennis Quaid was eating those prawns.

yeah! stuff like that, and the angry monologue in the men's room, THOSE were what I found horrifying and I wish the movie leaned into them; but it was more interested in what those men made women become (the monster), and that's fine; I like creature features for showing how victims can be bent out of shape by violence until they are (seen as) monsters themselves; it's as old as the hills, that, but I'll never get tired of it

[Ms Harmless]

speaking of which, I'm sure I've seen movies that do exactly that very well, but I can't think of any off the top of my head

[Jorge]

Here's another thought about The Substance, and this isn't really an attack on the movie just something about its internal logic I didn't quite get:

We've seen movies like Death Becomes Her where fading stars turn to a miracle cure that makes them forever young. And this is good because they get to continue to pursue fame and public adoration, etc.

But the titular substance doesn't do that. It creates a whole OTHER person, disconnected from you, who goes on to enjoy the youth and fame and fortune. Meanwhile you're comatose for a week.

Who would want that?!? Did Demi understand this?? It seemed like she did. Why would she want that?? It sounds awful! I'll just give birth to a new person FROM MY SPINE and then THEY can have fame and fortune! And then when the Substance support people offer to end the process early on, she says no! Why???