Re: The 47th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

[epilogue]

It's so easy and more than reasonable to hate on the party that lost to Donald Trump twice

It is, but it's also more complex than that.

[epilogue]

Why wouldn't a dedication to free speech, colorblind society and dismantling shadowy government organizations be a great narrative? These were all formerly liberal causes!

They still are.

[tree_]

Actually, though... ?

[epilogue]

100%

[tree_]

Huh.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[epilogue]

But also... how telling (and genuinely shocking) that you're making that comment about the "left" but yet have never had issues with the shit those on the right are saying here. I can't wrap my head around that.

Mostly because it's not worth the time; McP does a fine job of launching well-articulated reasonable arguments against GOP policy.

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland). So it's easier for me to criticize that which I once believed wholeheartedly, and where I feel (rightly or not) where I can offer more novel opinions. Like, I wish the democrats would begin to embrace things like nuclear energy and fossil fuel, a defensive military posture that eschewed the big brother watchdogging of the post-WWII globalist complex, a social services mindset that embraced the great wealth transfer rather than Federal subsidies. So much opportunity to tell a compelling story if you could just let go of the last 20 years of programming.

And you feel Burt and his ilk are doing that? Are providing a compelling story?

Oh heavens no. But they seem more realistic than idealistic, which is proving to be a more actionable strategy at the ballot box

Fascinating. "Realistic" is about the last word I would use to describe that contingent. I mean, literally, just look at his last post before this.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[epilogue]

But also... how telling (and genuinely shocking) that you're making that comment about the "left" but yet have never had issues with the shit those on the right are saying here. I can't wrap my head around that.

Mostly because it's not worth the time; McP does a fine job of launching well-articulated reasonable arguments against GOP policy.

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland). So it's easier for me to criticize that which I once believed wholeheartedly, and where I feel (rightly or not) where I can offer more novel opinions. Like, I wish the democrats would begin to embrace things like nuclear energy and fossil fuel, a defensive military posture that eschewed the big brother watchdogging of the post-WWII globalist complex, a social services mindset that embraced the great wealth transfer rather than Federal subsidies. So much opportunity to tell a compelling story if you could just let go of the last 20 years of programming.

And you feel Burt and his ilk are doing that? Are providing a compelling story?

Oh heavens no. But they seem more realistic than idealistic, which is proving to be a more actionable strategy at the ballot box

Fascinating. "Realistic" is about the last word I would use to describe that contingent. I mean, literally, just look at his last post before this.

Realistic insofar as they share an identified set of problems and solutions, and currently wield all chambers of government to enact those solutions, for better or worse.

"Solutions" is also a fascinating (and I think bizarre) weird to use.

[BurtReynolds]

Why wouldn't a dedication to free speech, colorblind society and dismantling shadowy government organizations be a great narrative? These were all formerly liberal causes!

They still are.

0/3

[BurtReynolds]

But also... how telling (and genuinely shocking) that you're making that comment about the "left" but yet have never had issues with the shit those on the right are saying here. I can't wrap my head around that.

Mostly because it's not worth the time; McP does a fine job of launching well-articulated reasonable arguments against GOP policy.

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland). So it's easier for me to criticize that which I once believed wholeheartedly, and where I feel (rightly or not) where I can offer more novel opinions. Like, I wish the democrats would begin to embrace things like nuclear energy and fossil fuel, a defensive military posture that eschewed the big brother watchdogging of the post-WWII globalist complex, a social services mindset that embraced the great wealth transfer rather than Federal subsidies. So much opportunity to tell a compelling story if you could just let go of the last 20 years of programming.

And you feel Burt and his ilk are doing that? Are providing a compelling story?

Oh heavens no. But they seem more realistic than idealistic, which is proving to be a more actionable strategy at the ballot box

Fascinating. "Realistic" is about the last word I would use to describe that contingent. I mean, literally, just look at his last post before this.

Realistic insofar as they share an identified set of problems and solutions, and currently wield all chambers of government to enact those solutions, for better or worse.

"Solutions" is also a fascinating (and I think bizarre) weird to use.

What word would you use?

[epilogue]

But also... how telling (and genuinely shocking) that you're making that comment about the "left" but yet have never had issues with the shit those on the right are saying here. I can't wrap my head around that.

Mostly because it's not worth the time; McP does a fine job of launching well-articulated reasonable arguments against GOP policy.

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland). So it's easier for me to criticize that which I once believed wholeheartedly, and where I feel (rightly or not) where I can offer more novel opinions. Like, I wish the democrats would begin to embrace things like nuclear energy and fossil fuel, a defensive military posture that eschewed the big brother watchdogging of the post-WWII globalist complex, a social services mindset that embraced the great wealth transfer rather than Federal subsidies. So much opportunity to tell a compelling story if you could just let go of the last 20 years of programming.

And you feel Burt and his ilk are doing that? Are providing a compelling story?

Oh heavens no. But they seem more realistic than idealistic, which is proving to be a more actionable strategy at the ballot box

Fascinating. "Realistic" is about the last word I would use to describe that contingent. I mean, literally, just look at his last post before this.

Realistic insofar as they share an identified set of problems and solutions, and currently wield all chambers of government to enact those solutions, for better or worse.

"Solutions" is also a fascinating (and I think bizarre) weird to use.

What word would you use?

Problems feels like an appropriate word.

But any regime that has no interest in governing, in fact wants to dismantle government, doesn't seem particularly interested in "solutions".

[BurtReynolds]

It sounds like a terrific solution to corrupt government.

I think if you were an honest person, you could admit that even your most hated political enemies - being real life human beings and not demons - are working towards solutions to problems. I mean, even Hitler had a solution! If you were not drowning in irony poison - and not willfully trying to misunderstand trag's points to sound like a "decent person" - you could just say you find the right's solutions to be terrible. Take me for instance: I find the DEI crowd's solution to racial or gender inequality to be utterly abhorrent and counter productive, but I can still admit that they have some sort of solution and are working towards implementing it, backwards as it is.

[epilogue]

It sounds like a terrific solution to corrupt government.

I think if you were an honest person, you could admit that even your most hated political enemies - being real life human beings and not demons - are working towards solutions to problems. I mean, even Hitler had a solution! If you were not drowning in irony poison - and not willfully trying to misunderstand trag's points to sound like a "decent person" - you could just say you find the right's solutions to be terrible. Take me for instance: I find the DEI crowd's solution to racial or gender inequality to be utterly abhorrent and counter productive, but I can still admit that they have some sort of solution and are working towards implementing it, backwards as it is.

Wow

We'll, there you go, Trag. Here is your "realistic" hero.

[BurtReynolds]

On practicality, I think after decades of fake Republican support for their agenda, conservative voters learned to completely discount politicians saying the right things in favor of people who act in a directionally aligned way, regardless of who they are as people. It really doesn't matter that your chosen candidate says all the right things at press conferences. Again, no one cares anymore.

I kept waiting for dem voters to adapt the same way, but fear of Trump kept them in line

[BurtReynolds]

It sounds like a terrific solution to corrupt government.

I think if you were an honest person, you could admit that even your most hated political enemies - being real life human beings and not demons - are working towards solutions to problems. I mean, even Hitler had a solution! If you were not drowning in irony poison - and not willfully trying to misunderstand trag's points to sound like a "decent person" - you could just say you find the right's solutions to be terrible. Take me for instance: I find the DEI crowd's solution to racial or gender inequality to be utterly abhorrent and counter productive, but I can still admit that they have some sort of solution and are working towards implementing it, backwards as it is.

Wow

We'll, there you go, Trag. Here is your "realistic" hero.

Yes, it's realistic to assume even your political enemies are working towards solutions (fucked as they are) to problems, not cartoon villains bent on serving evil like Skeletor. I don't think this is controversial.

[E.H. Ruddock]

I mean, even Hitler had a solution!

Just uh, just in case you didn’t know, not all solutions are good solutions. Working towards a terrible solution is not… eh never mind.

[epilogue]

On practicality, I think after decades of fake Republican support for their agenda, conservative voters learned to completely discount politicians saying the right things in favor of people who act in a directionally aligned way, regardless of who they are as people. It really doesn't matter that your chosen candidate says all the right things at press conferences. Again, no one cares anymore.

I kept waiting for dem voters to adapt the same way, but fear of Trump kept them in line

Fear of Trump is a gross mischaracterization of an otherwise interesting point.

And it isn't that they learned to discount politicians. That's nonsense. It's that they choose to believe lies.

[BurtReynolds]

I mean, even Hitler had a solution!

Just uh, just in case you didn’t know, not all solutions are good solutions. Working towards a terrible solution is not… eh never mind.

Yeah I mentioned that in the same post.

[epilogue]

It sounds like a terrific solution to corrupt government.

I think if you were an honest person, you could admit that even your most hated political enemies - being real life human beings and not demons - are working towards solutions to problems. I mean, even Hitler had a solution! If you were not drowning in irony poison - and not willfully trying to misunderstand trag's points to sound like a "decent person" - you could just say you find the right's solutions to be terrible. Take me for instance: I find the DEI crowd's solution to racial or gender inequality to be utterly abhorrent and counter productive, but I can still admit that they have some sort of solution and are working towards implementing it, backwards as it is.

Wow

We'll, there you go, Trag. Here is your "realistic" hero.

Yes, it's realistic to assume even your political enemies are working towards solutions (fucked as they are) to problems, not cartoon villains bent on serving evil like Skeletor. I don't think this is controversial.

It isn't controversial. But in this case, it also isn't accurate. There are no solutions. There are fabricated problems and there are... shrugs.

This administration wants to dissolve the government. There can be no solutions.