Re: The 47th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

[epilogue]

For the record my comments weren't about trans rights in general, of course trans people have human rights as we all do. It was regarding trans sports participation specifically.

That's a pretty simple issue for me in that I don't agree with it and I suspect I'm in the majority with that thinking. The trouble with "everyone's rights" is that your rights trample my rights at times - so whose rights should win out?

If I was a Dem I'd have said "I agree, no trans athletes in sports'. Take the point away. Like I said, I'd think anyone going through gender reassignment would have far more to deal with than not playing sport under their new gender.

It is such a tiny percentage of the population, and an even tinier percent that the sport issue effects. I really can't believe this is even a political talking point tbh.

So you're okay with your rights trampling others?

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Higgs]

For the record my comments weren't about trans rights in general, of course trans people have human rights as we all do. It was regarding trans sports participation specifically.

That's a pretty simple issue for me in that I don't agree with it and I suspect I'm in the majority with that thinking. The trouble with "everyone's rights" is that your rights trample my rights at times - so whose rights should win out?

If I was a Dem I'd have said "I agree, no trans athletes in sports'. Take the point away. Like I said, I'd think anyone going through gender reassignment would have far more to deal with than not playing sport under their new gender.

It is such a tiny percentage of the population, and an even tinier percent that the sport issue effects. I really can't believe this is even a political talking point tbh.

So you're okay with your rights trampling others?

What right of mine is trampling anyone else's in my scenario here? My right to an opinion?

Your comment about my rights trampling on anyone else's just prove my point that rights for all aren't fair and don't work perfectly in practice. Does my right to smoke trump your right to breathe clean air? Does your right to free speech trump my right to quiet enjoyment? Does my right to have my therapy dog beside me trump your right to not have your chronic dog allergy blow up?

You seem to think I'm trampling on trans rights in general here. I'm specifically talking about sports participation because that was the talking point (and bathrooms, but that one is so stupid I won't even mention it).

Rights conflicts exist everywhere. Sometimes yours win out sometimes other's do. Why should trans athlete's rights be special in that regard?

[BurtReynolds]

You can't really have an honest conversation with anyone who jumps to screaming that you don't think trans people are people over the slightest disagreement about women's sports.

[spike]

the real issue here is free transgender operations are what's threatening to bankrupt the united states.

[dimejinky99]

The problem trans people have globally is they have no political representation. They have spokespeople they have awareness groups and activists and charities. They have no political front.
So therefore the conservative lobby gets to pick the battle field / issue. So suddenly it’s manufactured tired hysteria about trans people in sports or in prisons. They get to dictate the play and it’s an onslaught. Any it’s about a blindingly minuscule number of people. So why all the constant hysteria and manufactured outrage about them?

Here’s why. It’s a wedge issue. Conservatives and the religious demographic lost that battle globally, with gay people. Fron the AIDS crisis onwards. They lost it completely and LGB rights now pretty much secured and accepted and normalised in most western societies and a few that aren’t.
Conservative crowd lost that battle utterly so now, the trans issue, which they have and are making into an issue, as with Trump above, is their new target of attack. And they won’t stop there if they win it, that’s the problem and why trans people, even if you don’t know any, deserve your support. It won’t just stop at taking their rights. It doesn’t ever stop there.

[dimejinky99]

This is just pointless cruelty. These people are going to die either by their own hand or someone else’s. There’s nothing whatsoever to be gained by this administration doing this. So what’s the point?

The Bureau of Prisons is moving forward with plans to move transgender inmates out of prisons that align with their gender identity and into facilities that align with their assigned sex at birth.
https://www.npr.org/2025/02/21/nx-s1-53 ... -transfers

[Higgs]

My guess is they have no political representation because there are so few of them. And that's how politics works is it not? Needs and wants of the many and all that.

My point on all this is that the R's had a very clear policy position on this (as poor taste in general as it was) and the Dems did not.

Why not come out and state an actual clearly defined position on trans issues. For me that would look something along the lines of no trans players in sports, some sort of clearly documented process for trans kids to follow from a medical standpoint (up until they are 18 at least) and a strong stand to support trans human rights otherwise.

Then when all Trump's BS talking points are spat out you can just say here's our position on this, how about we move on to something that actually concerns the well being of more than 0.1% of the population?

I understand single issue voters but this isn't the issue that you want to keep spouting to win any elections. And the Dems allowing the R's to keep bringing it up without their own clear policy position in response was a huge mistake. They could have taken a middle ground, reasonable position, but instead, through their silence, allowed Trump to make it far bigger than it is.

But what do I know?

[Higgs]

This is just pointless cruelty. These people are going to die either by their own hand or someone else’s. There’s nothing whatsoever to be gained by this administration doing this. So what’s the point?

The Bureau of Prisons is moving forward with plans to move transgender inmates out of prisons that align with their gender identity and into facilities that align with their assigned sex at birth.
https://www.npr.org/2025/02/21/nx-s1-53 ... -transfers

To my post above, this would fall under "strongly supporting trans human rights" with the Dems position being that trans prisoners be assigned to prisons of their assumed gender.

What is the Dems position on this? I know what the R's is.

[Higgs]

Also apologies for totally ignoring thread integrity today.

[dimejinky99]

My guess is they have no political representation because there are so few of them. And that's how politics works is it not? Needs and wants of the many and all that.

My point on all this is that the R's had a very clear policy position on this (as poor taste in general as it was) and the Dems did not.

Why not come out and state an actual clearly defined position on trans issues. For me that would look something along the lines of no trans players in sports, some sort of clearly documented process for trans kids to follow from a medical standpoint (up until they are 18 at least) and a strong stand to support trans human rights otherwise.

Then when all Trump's BS talking points are spat out you can just say here's our position on this, how about we move on to something that actually concerns the well being of more than 0.1% of the population?

I understand single issue voters but this isn't the issue that you want to keep spouting to win any elections. And the Dems allowing the R's to keep bringing it up without their own clear policy position in response was a huge mistake. They could have taken a middle ground, reasonable position, but instead, through their silence, allowed Trump to make it far bigger than it is.

But what do I know?

It’s not specific to American politics. Democrats or the version of them in most other countries, more liberal minded parties, haven’t supported trans people at all. Just as in the US they haven’t gone near it in any sense. So the right gets to have a field day with it unchallenged. And you are correct that there just aren’t enough trans people to form up in any political sense. So why target them at all?



Also given there are so few of them, there’s no win or nothing to be gained by more open minded /dems parties supporting them. Why risk the political capital when it’s such an incredibly small amount of people involved? Which is cynical as all shit but that’s politics.

[dimejinky99]

Also apologies for totally ignoring thread integrity today.

No u think it’s completely relevant given Trump went off on them last night.

Free trans surgeries. As if.

That’s gotta be the first and only time any kind of surgery or medical procedure has been free in the US in decades.
He’s talking such bullshit and his sheeple lap it up

[epilogue]

For the record my comments weren't about trans rights in general, of course trans people have human rights as we all do. It was regarding trans sports participation specifically.

That's a pretty simple issue for me in that I don't agree with it and I suspect I'm in the majority with that thinking. The trouble with "everyone's rights" is that your rights trample my rights at times - so whose rights should win out?

If I was a Dem I'd have said "I agree, no trans athletes in sports'. Take the point away. Like I said, I'd think anyone going through gender reassignment would have far more to deal with than not playing sport under their new gender.

It is such a tiny percentage of the population, and an even tinier percent that the sport issue effects. I really can't believe this is even a political talking point tbh.

So you're okay with your rights trampling others?

What right of mine is trampling anyone else's in my scenario here? My right to an opinion?

Your comment about my rights trampling on anyone else's just prove my point that rights for all aren't fair and don't work perfectly in practice. Does my right to smoke trump your right to breathe clean air? Does your right to free speech trump my right to quiet enjoyment? Does my right to have my therapy dog beside me trump your right to not have your chronic dog allergy blow up?

You seem to think I'm trampling on trans rights in general here. I'm specifically talking about sports participation because that was the talking point (and bathrooms, but that one is so stupid I won't even mention it).

Rights conflicts exist everywhere. Sometimes yours win out sometimes other's do. Why should trans athlete's rights be special in that regard?

That's the point. They shouldn't be. Republicans are making them special by demonizing and othering them.

Look at it this way, would you every argue that Black people shouldn't be allowed to play sports? Or that women aren't allowed to play sports?

[epilogue]

Also apologies for totally ignoring thread integrity today.

Nah, buddy, you're good. Trump keeps bringing this up and trying to erase people. We can talk about that here as long as he is.

And I do appreciate this conversation, by the way. Thank you for having it.

[epilogue]

You can't really have an honest conversation with anyone who jumps to screaming that you don't think trans people are people over the slightest disagreement about women's sports.

No one is screaming. Just trying to invite a framework or way of thinking about an issue. I haven't said that anyone here hate trans people.

It is interesting how no one answers the question, though?

It's almost as if... they know it's rhetorical?

[Bi_3]

You can't really have an honest conversation with anyone who jumps to screaming that you don't think trans people are people over the slightest disagreement about women's sports.

No one is screaming. Just trying to invite a framework or way of thinking about an issue. I haven't said that anyone here hate trans people.

It is interesting how no one answers the question, though?

It's almost as if... they know it's rhetorical?

I’ll answer your question if you restate it clearly

[epilogue]

You can't really have an honest conversation with anyone who jumps to screaming that you don't think trans people are people over the slightest disagreement about women's sports.

No one is screaming. Just trying to invite a framework or way of thinking about an issue. I haven't said that anyone here hate trans people.

It is interesting how no one answers the question, though?

It's almost as if... they know it's rhetorical?

I’ll answer your question if you restate it clearly

You and I both know that's not even a little bit true.

[Bi_3]

You can't really have an honest conversation with anyone who jumps to screaming that you don't think trans people are people over the slightest disagreement about women's sports.

No one is screaming. Just trying to invite a framework or way of thinking about an issue. I haven't said that anyone here hate trans people.

It is interesting how no one answers the question, though?

It's almost as if... they know it's rhetorical?

I’ll answer your question if you restate it clearly

You and I both know that's not even a little bit true.

I will answer in good faith, just write the question you want answered

[epilogue]

I told you before, I'm not doing this with you again.

Have a great day, Bi.

[Higgs]

For the record my comments weren't about trans rights in general, of course trans people have human rights as we all do. It was regarding trans sports participation specifically.

That's a pretty simple issue for me in that I don't agree with it and I suspect I'm in the majority with that thinking. The trouble with "everyone's rights" is that your rights trample my rights at times - so whose rights should win out?

If I was a Dem I'd have said "I agree, no trans athletes in sports'. Take the point away. Like I said, I'd think anyone going through gender reassignment would have far more to deal with than not playing sport under their new gender.

It is such a tiny percentage of the population, and an even tinier percent that the sport issue effects. I really can't believe this is even a political talking point tbh.

So you're okay with your rights trampling others?

What right of mine is trampling anyone else's in my scenario here? My right to an opinion?

Your comment about my rights trampling on anyone else's just prove my point that rights for all aren't fair and don't work perfectly in practice. Does my right to smoke trump your right to breathe clean air? Does your right to free speech trump my right to quiet enjoyment? Does my right to have my therapy dog beside me trump your right to not have your chronic dog allergy blow up?

You seem to think I'm trampling on trans rights in general here. I'm specifically talking about sports participation because that was the talking point (and bathrooms, but that one is so stupid I won't even mention it).

Rights conflicts exist everywhere. Sometimes yours win out sometimes other's do. Why should trans athlete's rights be special in that regard?

That's the point. They shouldn't be. Republicans are making them special by demonizing and othering them.

Look at it this way, would you every argue that Black people shouldn't be allowed to play sports? Or that women aren't allowed to play sports?

But that's my point too. If the Dems actually took a clear policy position on transgender peeps then they could have taken the talking point away. "This is our position on this issue. Now can we move on to other more pressing issues. And btw, why do you keep on harping on about trans anyway?". But they didn't. And continue to not have a clear position. Allowing Trump to bullshit on as he does and feeding his dumb as fuck base.

As a fan of both the NBA and Beach Volleyball I would never argue either of those things. But I don't think the trans women playing in female leagues is the same argument at all. There's physical realities that come into play whether you or I like it or not.

I can't believe I've spent the day arguing online about something that I myself stated should be a non issue. Trump really is a bit of a savant with this stuff.