Ukraine

[McParadigm]

That implies understanding

[Bi_3]

i just watched the full interview ... i have sympathy for zelensky but i think he lost track of where he was / what year it is / who is president now ... JD Vance gave his little speech mentioning that we needed diplomacy and then zelensky vocalized a 2-minute rebuttal that he should have just kept to himself. pointing out that trump was once president during this issue and you can't just blame biden or obama. like dude, just sign the paper and smile. everything else in that argument after that point he asked for because he wouldn't back down. this isnt a conversation at home or even with trump with no cameras. this is a public event.

and oddly enough, trump who is mr. low emotional quotient, is errily the mature one, trying to salvage some semblance of a deal. trump was reasonably calm until Zelensky makes this dumbass comment that US has an ocean protecting it and doesn't feel putin now, but we will?

fuck you dude

like, what the fuck was that comment?

keep you're bitter eurotrash anti-american doomerism to your living room

if putin wants the US to feel him we make him feel right back

but he knows not to come at us the same way bc we are built differently

what a dumb motherfucker

he looks tired as hell though. i think he just lost track of the context. gotta keep that to yourself or your home turf

his days gotta be numbered

Dude. The US wants Ukraine to agree to a "peace deal" that was decided on by the US and Russia, and not his country. He's not the dumb motherfucker in that meeting.

Also the "peace deal" they want him to sign is missing the security guarantee he has been pushing for.
He even tried to explain why he wants the guarantee in the deal, and got yelled at.

Whether the security guarantee is feasible or not, is a different subject. Just can't blame the guy for needing to secure the end of the deal that would benefit his people.

Zelensky could have bent the knee. He should have. There was no need for him to go there in front of the cameras. BUT Trump and Vance's reaction was so immature and disrespectful, not just to Zelensky but all of Ukraine and what they have been through, that it was a humiliation of US power and leadership in the world. They were like 30 minutes from the mineral deal, worth hundreds of billions, and now nothing. Fucking unbelievable.

[Dev]

i just watched the full interview ... i have sympathy for zelensky but i think he lost track of where he was / what year it is / who is president now ... JD Vance gave his little speech mentioning that we needed diplomacy and then zelensky vocalized a 2-minute rebuttal that he should have just kept to himself. pointing out that trump was once president during this issue and you can't just blame biden or obama. like dude, just sign the paper and smile. everything else in that argument after that point he asked for because he wouldn't back down. this isnt a conversation at home or even with trump with no cameras. this is a public event.

and oddly enough, trump who is mr. low emotional quotient, is errily the mature one, trying to salvage some semblance of a deal. trump was reasonably calm until Zelensky makes this dumbass comment that US has an ocean protecting it and doesn't feel putin now, but we will?

fuck you dude

like, what the fuck was that comment?

keep you're bitter eurotrash anti-american doomerism to your living room

if putin wants the US to feel him we make him feel right back

but he knows not to come at us the same way bc we are built differently

what a dumb motherfucker

he looks tired as hell though. i think he just lost track of the context. gotta keep that to yourself or your home turf

his days gotta be numbered

thanks for coming out as a dumb fuck

his country was invaded and he suggested Russia could be a danger to others and that is what sets you off?

stfu

[Dev]

guess we found out today why i'm still registered republican

and also a shitty poster with zero comedic value.

homophobia is about all you seem to offer the board.

[wease]

i just watched the full interview ... i have sympathy for zelensky but i think he lost track of where he was / what year it is / who is president now ... JD Vance gave his little speech mentioning that we needed diplomacy and then zelensky vocalized a 2-minute rebuttal that he should have just kept to himself. pointing out that trump was once president during this issue and you can't just blame biden or obama. like dude, just sign the paper and smile. everything else in that argument after that point he asked for because he wouldn't back down. this isnt a conversation at home or even with trump with no cameras. this is a public event.

and oddly enough, trump who is mr. low emotional quotient, is errily the mature one, trying to salvage some semblance of a deal. trump was reasonably calm until Zelensky makes this dumbass comment that US has an ocean protecting it and doesn't feel putin now, but we will?

fuck you dude

like, what the fuck was that comment?

keep you're bitter eurotrash anti-american doomerism to your living room

if putin wants the US to feel him we make him feel right back

but he knows not to come at us the same way bc we are built differently

what a dumb motherfucker

he looks tired as hell though. i think he just lost track of the context. gotta keep that to yourself or your home turf

his days gotta be numbered

Dude. The US wants Ukraine to agree to a "peace deal" that was decided on by the US and Russia, and not his country. He's not the dumb motherfucker in that meeting.

Also the "peace deal" they want him to sign is missing the security guarantee he has been pushing for.
He even tried to explain why he wants the guarantee in the deal, and got yelled at.

Whether the security guarantee is feasible or not, is a different subject. Just can't blame the guy for needing to secure the end of the deal that would benefit his people.

Zelensky could have bent the knee. He should have. There was no need for him to go there in front of the cameras. BUT Trump and Vance's reaction was so immature and disrespectful, not just to Zelensky but all of Ukraine and what they have been through, that it was a humiliation of US power and leadership in the world. They were like 30 minutes from the mineral deal, worth hundreds of billions, and now nothing. Fucking unbelievable.

So, you’re more upset the US didn’t get hundreds of billions of mineral rights?

[96583UP]

the best Ukraine can get at this point, IMO, is:

a demilitarized zone, or something akin to it
having to perpetually repel low-intensity russian incursions
and having to perpetually repel infiltration into their politcal apparatus to avoid a coup

this is because: they lost

so bearing all that in mind - and that Europe still can't defend itself properly (although after today, their governments will prob all be adding a '0' to their defense budgets) - and now with Captain Defective at the helm of the USofA. they have very limited choices

Zelensky insisted on coming to the US to sign this deal. Trump even seemed surprised.

he came to the US and did not act like a diplomat that understood where he stands on the chess board. his positioning on the chess board is very bad. things changed when trump got elected. many americans did not want that. but it happened. we can't change it.

he should have kept his mouth shut and signed

instead he talked back in a multi-minute lecture to the VP, and insulted the US as though we were ignorant of the reach of Russia, we are protected by our Ocean, and we are naive not to think Putin will come for us one day

we're not naive. there are a few hundred nuclear missile silos we keep on alert 24/7 to prove the opposite

weighing all his shitty remaining options, he should have internalized the narrative and just eaten shit and signed the paper

you wanna turn it into a twitter argument in the oval office, where you insisted on showing up - then of course you are gonna go back empty-handed

you lost

now the choice is extinction or the less bad option

choose the less bad option

[Stickman]

Fuck I wish he'd stood up and knocked both of them out. Fuckin little cowards.

[Bi_3]

i just watched the full interview ... i have sympathy for zelensky but i think he lost track of where he was / what year it is / who is president now ... JD Vance gave his little speech mentioning that we needed diplomacy and then zelensky vocalized a 2-minute rebuttal that he should have just kept to himself. pointing out that trump was once president during this issue and you can't just blame biden or obama. like dude, just sign the paper and smile. everything else in that argument after that point he asked for because he wouldn't back down. this isnt a conversation at home or even with trump with no cameras. this is a public event.

and oddly enough, trump who is mr. low emotional quotient, is errily the mature one, trying to salvage some semblance of a deal. trump was reasonably calm until Zelensky makes this dumbass comment that US has an ocean protecting it and doesn't feel putin now, but we will?

fuck you dude

like, what the fuck was that comment?

keep you're bitter eurotrash anti-american doomerism to your living room

if putin wants the US to feel him we make him feel right back

but he knows not to come at us the same way bc we are built differently

what a dumb motherfucker

he looks tired as hell though. i think he just lost track of the context. gotta keep that to yourself or your home turf

his days gotta be numbered

Dude. The US wants Ukraine to agree to a "peace deal" that was decided on by the US and Russia, and not his country. He's not the dumb motherfucker in that meeting.

Also the "peace deal" they want him to sign is missing the security guarantee he has been pushing for.
He even tried to explain why he wants the guarantee in the deal, and got yelled at.

Whether the security guarantee is feasible or not, is a different subject. Just can't blame the guy for needing to secure the end of the deal that would benefit his people.

Zelensky could have bent the knee. He should have. There was no need for him to go there in front of the cameras. BUT Trump and Vance's reaction was so immature and disrespectful, not just to Zelensky but all of Ukraine and what they have been through, that it was a humiliation of US power and leadership in the world. They were like 30 minutes from the mineral deal, worth hundreds of billions, and now nothing. Fucking unbelievable.

So, you’re more upset the US didn’t get hundreds of billions of mineral rights?

Not "more", but that was Trump's condition for expanded US support in the country, after all his complaints about loans getting money back and blah-blah-blah, which not only would have paid for itself but would have been a real deterrent to further military action from Russia... so yes I think it sucks that didnt get done. That type of economic entanglement is more powerful than just arms shipments (see Taiwan or South Korea for examples).

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[tommy]

look I actually agree that Z should have taken the deal but numbersup is being really weird about it

He's always had a dark side to him

[wease]

i just watched the full interview ... i have sympathy for zelensky but i think he lost track of where he was / what year it is / who is president now ... JD Vance gave his little speech mentioning that we needed diplomacy and then zelensky vocalized a 2-minute rebuttal that he should have just kept to himself. pointing out that trump was once president during this issue and you can't just blame biden or obama. like dude, just sign the paper and smile. everything else in that argument after that point he asked for because he wouldn't back down. this isnt a conversation at home or even with trump with no cameras. this is a public event.

and oddly enough, trump who is mr. low emotional quotient, is errily the mature one, trying to salvage some semblance of a deal. trump was reasonably calm until Zelensky makes this dumbass comment that US has an ocean protecting it and doesn't feel putin now, but we will?

fuck you dude

like, what the fuck was that comment?

keep you're bitter eurotrash anti-american doomerism to your living room

if putin wants the US to feel him we make him feel right back

but he knows not to come at us the same way bc we are built differently

what a dumb motherfucker

he looks tired as hell though. i think he just lost track of the context. gotta keep that to yourself or your home turf

his days gotta be numbered

Dude. The US wants Ukraine to agree to a "peace deal" that was decided on by the US and Russia, and not his country. He's not the dumb motherfucker in that meeting.

Also the "peace deal" they want him to sign is missing the security guarantee he has been pushing for.
He even tried to explain why he wants the guarantee in the deal, and got yelled at.

Whether the security guarantee is feasible or not, is a different subject. Just can't blame the guy for needing to secure the end of the deal that would benefit his people.

Zelensky could have bent the knee. He should have. There was no need for him to go there in front of the cameras. BUT Trump and Vance's reaction was so immature and disrespectful, not just to Zelensky but all of Ukraine and what they have been through, that it was a humiliation of US power and leadership in the world. They were like 30 minutes from the mineral deal, worth hundreds of billions, and now nothing. Fucking unbelievable.

So, you’re more upset the US didn’t get hundreds of billions of mineral rights?

Not "more", but that was Trump's condition for expanded US support in the country, after all his complaints about loans getting money back and blah-blah-blah, which not only would have paid for itself but would have been a real deterrent to further military action from Russia... so yes I think it sucks that didnt get done. That type of economic entanglement is more powerful than just arms shipments (see Taiwan or South Korea for examples).

That fucking Zelenskyy. What a goddamn prick to ask for guarantees Russia wouldn’t invade him and kill his people again. Fucking ingrate. Trump Gaza Yes!

[96583UP]

look I actually agree that Z should have taken the deal but numbersup is being really weird about it

He's always had a dark side to him

these colors don't run

[E.H. Ruddock]

look I actually agree that Z should have taken the deal but numbersup is being really weird about it

He's always had a dark side to him

these colors don't run

Sainz supports Ukraine tho

[96583UP]

look I actually agree that Z should have taken the deal but numbersup is being really weird about it

He's always had a dark side to him

these colors don't run

Sainz supports Ukraine tho

i can't stay made at those beautiful brown eyes

[McParadigm]

look I actually agree that Z should have taken the deal but numbersup is being really weird about it

I don’t know. He went in hoping to close a deal that would give the US all those Ukrainian minerals in exchange for no actual promise of future action….it was really just so they’d stop openly rooting for Putin.

Instead, he has revealed the obvious truth (they were never not going to back Putin) in a very loud way. Europe’s immediate reaction this morning is very revealing. I’m not really sure what the future holds, but I think people there are acting on a much more complete understanding of what the US is to them now, and I think it will inform their decisions going forward.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[McParadigm]

I wouldn’t expect an actual promise of future action to emerge from a meeting like this

I assume you wouldn’t expect an actual promise of action to come out of ANY meeting, now or ever. Could any of us keep a straight face while asserting that Donald Trump might approve weapons or funding for Ukraine? Impossible.

it’s obviously a time sensitive situation, and the sort of capital structuring, regulatory approvals (lol but still) and deal making to get to extraction, refining, and distribution of minerals — not to mention the workforce development to fill those roles — is probably a 20-year prospect for full realization.

It’s also not territory that Ukraine currently controls.

There’s no EU military scaling plan that will drive some sort of improved combat outcome

Any European military scaling that may occur will be a step above what the Trump administration would have provided to Ukraine. Twelve donuts and a nickle would be more than Trump might have provided. And a militarily activated Europe has always been at the top of Vladimir Putin‘s do not want list.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[McParadigm]

Very true, but even under the most unified of circumstances, it would be so time- and labor-intensive that to my thinking it makes it a foregone conclusion that it wouldn’t happen, not within a timeline that would somehow curb a complete hostile takeover by Russia. And it seems like a lot of more powerful EU countries also have significant ticket portions of their populous that are inclined to turn inward.

Maybe I’m being pessimistic.

Normally, I would agree with all of this. But I don’t think the real impact of Europe mobilizing would be about boots on the ground.

A bullet supplied by the United States tomorrow is used and gone. A tank built by Europe tomorrow will still be in Europe ten years from now. Right now Russia is using armor from the 60s, old men, and donkeys. I can’t pretend to know their full situation or mindset, but I know that a switched on Europe is a much bigger long-term problem for them than anything the US has been willing to throw.

[Higgs]

Even the r/conservative sub is up in arms about this and are saying Zelensky got ambushed for a TV opportunity to try and make Trump and Vance look tough. I've never seen that sub anything but grovelling Trump fan boys.

Unbelievable stuff.

Also, Numbers - wtaf?