Ukraine

[Bi_3]

Victor Davis Hanson wrote this on his wrap-up from yesterday's disaster, and I know it's cool to do the lol-mineral-deal-lol-lmao-even thing, but this really is the best option we have at the moment for peace in the region. Hate Trump all you want, this is the way that the West wins.

Zelenskyy must know that all of the once deal-stopping issues to peace have been de facto settled: Ukraine is now better armed than most NATO nations, but will not be in NATO; and no president has or will ever supply Ukraine with the armed wherewithal to take back the Donbass and Crimea. So, the only two issues are a) how far will Putin be willing to withdraw to his 2022 borders and b) how will he be deterred? The first is answered by a commercial sector/tripwire, joint Ukrainian-US-Europe resource development corridor in Eastern Ukraine, coupled with a Korea-like DMZ; the second by the fact that Putin unlike his 2008 and 2014 invasions has now lost a million dead and wounded to a Ukraine that will remain thusly armed.

I still do not understand how people see this going from A to point Z.

The area rich with minerals is under Russian control. Russia is not gonna sign a peace deal that gives that region back. The US is not going to funnel more money and weapons into Ukraine, even if there is a mineral deal. Surely that last part is obvious to everybody? So what grand strategic calculus change occurs, if the deal is struck?

Yes, around 70% of the known wealth is currently under Russian occupation but there are trillions not under Russian occupation that once capitalized by US and UKR interests create a motivation for us to militarily engage with UKR similarly to how we deal the Saudis and other petroleum providers: they buy weapons from us to protect their ability to sell resources to us. That should be obvious.

[dimejinky99]

Fair play NYC!!

[McParadigm]

Yes, around 70% of the known wealth is currently under Russian occupation

Currently under occupation? Or would remain under occupation?

once capitalized by US and UKR interests create a motivation for us to militarily engage with UKR similarly to how we deal the Saudis and other petroleum providers: they buy weapons from us to protect their ability to sell resources to us.

If you posted a link to an article and told me “this explains why Russia would reject this deal,” this is what I assume it would say.

[Dev]

Mods gonna do anything here or just allow ad hominem attacks to continue?

Cry more

[Dev]

Zelensky in London today for a meeting with EU leaders tomorrow and is also meeting King Charles today.

The Brits are furious and want trumps invitation to the uk to meet the king cancelled. They won’t cancel it.

But he’ll be fuckihg furious Zelensky is getting to meet the king before him.

Europe needs to take over supporting Ukraine. Removing idiot Americans and Trump from the conflict could big picture be a good thing.

[BurtReynolds]

Hell yeah, bro! I'll drink to that!

[Dev]

I’m happy to take a vacation, in order to tell you exactly how absurd the word “instead” is in the sentence “$100 Billion could have built a house for every homeless person in America instead”

lol no doubt.

[Dev]

that was a reference to RFK Jr's comments

and even if it wasn't, that was way over the top

you do still have time to apologize though

oh god, you’re slowly becoming Burt. ah well.

He's actually far worse. 96 is full on fascist. Pretty sure Burt is just confused and thinks he is saving art from woke or something dumb like that.

[96583UP]

Yes, around 70% of the known wealth is currently under Russian occupation

Currently under occupation? Or would remain under occupation?

once capitalized by US and UKR interests create a motivation for us to militarily engage with UKR similarly to how we deal the Saudis and other petroleum providers: they buy weapons from us to protect their ability to sell resources to us.

If you posted a link to an article and told me “this explains why Russia would reject this deal,” this is what I assume it would say.

i think this article was pretty good on the deal:

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-trump-z ... 30530.html

there has been a focus on 'rare' earth minerals in a lot of articles but the administration is interested in more than that. some thought trump was mispronouncing 'rare' as 'raw' minerals but others said it was a reference to the minerals more broadly. lithium for example is increasingly important. and not all in russian territory

US oil companies used to have joint ventures with russia so wouldnt put past the sides to flirt with something like that. Not at the top of my list of outcomes but if the shameless transactional president wants to make a splash, wouldn't put it past him. the next natural step after a peace deal is to remove or relax sanctions and there are likely some US companies that would look to do business there again

[blueviper]

Besides the collapse of the Soviet Union and the “loss” of territory with the newly formed independent states, has anyone tried to take Russian territory? I’m not following why Putin thinks the West is creeping towards his country. I doubt anyone wants that. He’s been the aggressor every time.

[96583UP]

no i don't think anyone wants russian territory. just certain groups with distinct cultural identities that wanted a break from russia but were held under soviet control.

he's the aggressor. and usually the victor.

[BurtReynolds]

Of course someone wants it. They want the whole world brought under their "rationalist" globalist rule.

And anyway all those generals at the Pentagon have to justify their paychecks somehow.

[96583UP]

that was a reference to RFK Jr's comments

and even if it wasn't, that was way over the top

you do still have time to apologize though

oh god, you’re slowly becoming Burt. ah well.

i think RFK Jr is a lunatic. but certain topics I think he has the right moral compass behind. We almost always differ on 'the facts' used to substantiate many of his arguments. but i think the principles backing some of the things he says are reasonable

[dimejinky99]

The thing absolutely everyone is missing is since this all kicked off Ukraine applied for EU membership and the EU approved and they’re being fast tracked

Soon as that happens all that gas and oil and uranium and all the other tasty resources can be sold into the EU (rather than stolen by Russia and the US)

This is the main or almost main reason Putin went in there in the first place. Actual asset grab land grab. He wants Ukraine he just wants it without any Ukrainians in it. Suits him fine if they all flee.

The abducting of tens of thousands of Ukrainian kids and forcing them into families on the other side of Russia, a whole continent away though. Is just evil and if nothing else that will eventually come back to bite him.

[96583UP]

The abducting of tens of thousands of Ukrainian kids and forcing them into families on the other side of Russia, a whole continent away though. Is just evil and if nothing else that will eventually come back to bite him.

it's horrible. reminds me of those stories of the canadian government abducting native children and sending them to re-programming schools, where many were abused

i hope those ukrainian children are not being abused like those indigenous peoples were

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/14/10640816 ... s-children

[spike]

that was a reference to RFK Jr's comments

and even if it wasn't, that was way over the top

you do still have time to apologize though

oh god, you’re slowly becoming Burt. ah well.

i think RFK Jr is a lunatic. but certain topics I think he has the right moral compass behind. We almost always differ on 'the facts' used to substantiate many of his arguments. but i think the principles backing some of the things he says are reasonable

I was referring to the snowflake portion of your post, but feel free to expound on your views regarding proper roadkill disposal.

[96583UP]

that was a reference to RFK Jr's comments

and even if it wasn't, that was way over the top

you do still have time to apologize though

oh god, you’re slowly becoming Burt. ah well.

i think RFK Jr is a lunatic. but certain topics I think he has the right moral compass behind. We almost always differ on 'the facts' used to substantiate many of his arguments. but i think the principles backing some of the things he says are reasonable

I was referring to the snowflake portion of your post, but feel free to expound on your views regarding proper roadkill disposal.

him being anti- food (chemical) additives, and anti-government waste

i disagree with him on vaccines, but i think he means well (wants people to be healthy)

defense of the middle class

critical of military industry

sounds like values i agree with

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[96583UP]

The abducting of tens of thousands of Ukrainian kids and forcing them into families on the other side of Russia, a whole continent away though. Is just evil and if nothing else that will eventually come back to bite him.

it's horrible. reminds me of those stories of the canadian government abducting native children and sending them to re-programming schools, where many were abused

i hope those ukrainian children are not being abused like those indigenous peoples were

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/14/10640816 ... s-children

Uh you know this happened in the US too?

so sad

[dimejinky99]

Norwegian fuel company Haltbakk Bunkers has announced it will cease supplying fuel to U.S. military forces in Norway and American ships docking in Norwegian ports, citing dissatisfaction with recent U.S. policy towards Ukraine.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/norwegi ... r-ukraine/