Ensign9 wrote:Amazing episode of television. I was not thrilled with the prospect of a siege based on its absence from the game but they shot the hell out of that sequence. Bravo. WHERE THE EFF WERE THE DIREWOLVES DURING THE BATTLE OF WINTERFELL, D&D?!?
I’ll save most of my game-knowledge feedback (and criticism) for the spoiler tags.
As great as the episode was, the arc we’re about to go on for two seasons has been undercut by revealing so much about Abby and her motivations this early. You should HATE Abby and her crew right now and, while I expect the TV-only audience will be upset, I think they’ll partially understand why Abby did what she did here and not feel the same sense of loathing. It feels like Mazin and Druckmann—of all people!—are pulling their punches and I don’t understand why.
And, more literally, the killing blow Abby delivers in the game feels much more brutal.
Edit: I do wonder if the toxic fandom reaction to Abby and her actress before and during Part II’s release influenced their decision to garner a little more audience sympathy for her show version and Dever. I can’t necessarily fault them for that but it doesn’t serve the best interests of the story.
I’ll finish with this: if you had ever considered playing the games, Part II in particular, I highly recommend spending the next week doing so. They’re incredible and I fear the show is going to further diverge from their narrative in all the wrong ways, potentially robbing all of you of the story’s full impact. And I don’t suggest watching a compilation of all the cutscenes on YouTube; you need to spend in-game time with the characters to realize the full scope. This doesn’t mean the show can’t or won’t be great but, man, I’m scratching my head at the decisions here.
I feel like I remember knowing why Abby was killing Joel while she was. Is that not right? I saw no point in the opening sequence during episode one this season, though.
The siege was intense. Great addition. It explains the Tommy/Dina swap. Really loved the whole episode. My hope is we don’t see Abby again until season 3. I don’t see any reason they can’t follow the storytelling perspective of the game.
I rewatched the video game death scene last night to ensure I wasn't misremembering. Abby and her crew are much more gruff and militaristic, and the killing itself is more brutal.
I didn't watch the cutscenes prior to that sequence again but I don't think you're explicitly told what their motives are but I think it was relatively clear there was a Firefly connection. It's not until the zoo scene halfway through the game that you really understand who's who and why Abby became what she became.
Regardless of what facts were revealed, you do NOT make an emotional connection with Abby in the game at that point because you don’t get the type of emotional context TV Abby monologues with this episode.
Last edited by Ensign9 on Tue April 22, 2025 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
daft twat wrote:The siege was intense. Great addition. It explains the Tommy/Dina swap. Really loved the whole episode. My hope is we don’t see Abby again until season 3. I don’t see any reason they can’t follow the storytelling perspective of the game.
That's what they should do but I think they intend to keep Abby front and center throughout the season.
daft twat wrote:The siege was intense. Great addition. It explains the Tommy/Dina swap. Really loved the whole episode. My hope is we don’t see Abby again until season 3. I don’t see any reason they can’t follow the storytelling perspective of the game.
That's what they should do but I think they intend to keep Abby front and center throughout the season.
Have not played the game, but no competent showrunner would keep Ellie as the solo lead. I think Ramsey’s doing a good job but the hate is strong and having Abby and Dina with heavy presences will help.
"The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
The storytelling choices they're making all make logical sense within the framing of the show and I'm sure it'll end up a fine season that many will enjoy. It’s shot beautifully and I'd probably be enjoying it quite a bit myself had I not played the game.
I hate the early choices they're making that deviate from the game as most of it is sequencing and timing of events and reveals they're fucking up. My eyes practically rolled out of the back of my head at the THREE MONTHS LATER card and that town hall meeting was a pedantic mess. To paraphrase Joel: "just fucking get on with it."
This episode was mostly a slog for me because of it. This should be a lean, MEAN descent into hell over this season and they're playing it too soft. Maybe they don't think the game version is palatable enough for a wider audience which, to be fair, is a valid concern for HBO.
I dunno; I'm probably being way too hard on the show. I'm just very protective of Part II.
I havent played the game so its not the bible for me, and so fat S2 is engaging enough. Well see how they develop Ellie being a madman or what, but i liked the overall quietness of this episode after the mayhem of the previous one.
VinylGuy wrote:I havent played the game so its not the bible for me, and so fat S2 is engaging enough. Well see how they develop Ellie being a madman or what, but i liked the overall quietness of this episode after the mayhem of the previous one.
I thought it was some of Bella's best work. The hospital sequence showed she still can't do 'smart-ass teen' very well, but the rest felt very genuine.
"The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
yeah, i think it could be interesting if her character gets really smart and thats her main strength. Its going to be hard to believe if she becomes a killing machine because of her physique.
Ensign9 wrote:The storytelling choices they're making all make logical sense within the framing of the show and I'm sure it'll end up a fine season that many will enjoy. It’s shot beautifully and I'd probably be enjoying it quite a bit myself had I not played the game.
I hate the early choices they're making that deviate from the game as most of it is sequencing and timing of events and reveals they're fucking up. My eyes practically rolled out of the back of my head at the THREE MONTHS LATER card and that town hall meeting was a pedantic mess. To paraphrase Joel: "just fucking get on with it."
This episode was mostly a slog for me because of it. This should be a lean, MEAN descent into hell over this season and they're playing it too soft. Maybe they don't think the game version is palatable enough for a wider audience which, to be fair, is a valid concern for HBO.
I dunno; I'm probably being way too hard on the show. I'm just very protective of Part II.
I think you are being too hard on it, though I understand being protective of something that had an impact on you.
I really loved this episode. I’m not really into zombies. Last week was intense and I enjoyed it, but I much prefer the quieter episodes like this, especially when they feel earned. What I most care about in books, shows, and modern games are characters. Get them right and the story becomes secondary. It’s why I adore Justified even when it was silly. It’s what made Wandavision such a delight. Lost, on the other hand, put the mythology ahead of the characters in the second half, and it suffered immensely. This show is doing a great job filling in the narrative and moving it along. I appreciate that there was not one deadly conflict from Jackson to Seattle.
I think by the end of this show I’ll feel a lot more empathy for Ellie than I did in the game. She wasn’t a Nathan Drake level of serial killer, but I was repulsed by her toward the end.
Last edited by daft twat on Tue April 29, 2025 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
daft twat wrote:I think by the end of this show I’ll feel a lot more empathy for Ellie than I did in the game. She wasn’t a Nathan Drake level of serial killer, but I was repulsed by her toward the end.
Assuming that’s a “no” and knowing there’s a season 3 of the show coming, does that mean they’re just going to drag out whatever happens in Part II over multiple seasons? Or will it be like Game of Thrones and will the show just have to go its own way?
Let me tell you, Homer Simpson is cock of nothing!
- C. Montgomery Burns
