Star Wars: Andor (Disney+)

[dimejinky99]

Knew I recognised her from somewhere. The force healer lady cassian is mad skeptical of
She’s the main baddie in the kneecap movie

https://youtu.be/Bwt_jWBBtik?si=HEUBzxp--VnQFpUj

[epilogue]

This captures the vastness of the SW galaxy very well. It also perfectly showcases the mixture of analog and digital technology that gives SW its unique style. Both of those are just as crucial as the pulp and whimsy of the OT trilogy.

I mostly agree.

It's a tone thing. If you took these events out of the Star Wars galaxy, nothing changes. There's obviously a nostalgic attachment to iconography. But that's really it. Again, minor criticism. Just something I felt while watching the series. Season Two did a much better job by incorporating more aliens and connecting directly to established canon. But it still felt lacking overall, to me. It's capable of doing those other things that you call "just as crucial" but it doesn't do any of the pulp. If the show didn't balance analog and digital tech well or didn't show the vastness of the galaxy, I think one would be totally in line mentioning those things as minor flaws in the show. It works both ways.

I understand that a large part of the appeal is that dudes who saw the OT when they were kids have now grown up and want Star Wars to grow up with them in the same way. They want dark and gritty. They want "grounded". And I'm glad those dudes have this. It's a bummer that for a lot of them this is a standard now and that they have this at the expense of the rest of Star Wars. I'm already tired of that rhetoric (elsewhere, that's not a dig at anyone here).

I'm glad we have this, too. It's a pleasant and well made diversion. A very nice balance. And I'll be the first to cheer on Tony's Mothma series!

[dimejinky99]

It’s aesthetic.
They nailed it. As the episodes go by the costumes specifically the rebellion lads, blends more into the ot. The design around them and the colour pallete and even the haircuts

[epilogue]

I'm not opposed to new technology and I understand it's not financially viable, but man, I wish practical sets were a requirement to make a Star War. That's one thing that really sets Andor apart and elevates it beyond the other shows. It's so perfectly lived in and tactile.

[Bi_3]

The love for Andor isn't some projection of toxic dude-bros because SW fans grew up and want it grounded, it's that Gilroy rejected the must-sell-toys approach of SW over the last decade and built something universal that does not require someone to be already be a Star Wars fan to love while respecting the overall storyline and rejecting whingy Star Wars gatekeepers.

[B]

Hmmm. Do you really think people who aren't Star Wars fans are watching this?

[Bi_3]

Hmmm. Do you really think people who aren't Star Wars fans are watching this?

No idea, but I was trying to say it's not required to appreciate what they accomplished and that fact could be a turn-off for many hardcore folks. Star Wars fans can be serious gatekeepers, in a manner not unlike Pearl Jam GA rail riders, so I can see casual viewers not even trying Andor because they assume you need to know that in the year BB8247 on BlipBlurp 9 that Porgs used the power of many to Force-projected kyber into existence (duh) before watching like so many of the other recent SW projects.

[epilogue]

Bi, as respectful and totally normal as always.

[Monkey_Driven]

This captures the vastness of the SW galaxy very well. It also perfectly showcases the mixture of analog and digital technology that gives SW its unique style. Both of those are just as crucial as the pulp and whimsy of the OT trilogy.

I mostly agree.

It's a tone thing. If you took these events out of the Star Wars galaxy, nothing changes. There's obviously a nostalgic attachment to iconography. But that's really it. Again, minor criticism. Just something I felt while watching the series. Season Two did a much better job by incorporating more aliens and connecting directly to established canon. But it still felt lacking overall, to me. It's capable of doing those other things that you call "just as crucial" but it doesn't do any of the pulp. If the show didn't balance analog and digital tech well or didn't show the vastness of the galaxy, I think one would be totally in line mentioning those things as minor flaws in the show. It works both ways.

I understand that a large part of the appeal is that dudes who saw the OT when they were kids have now grown up and want Star Wars to grow up with them in the same way. They want dark and gritty. They want "grounded". And I'm glad those dudes have this. It's a bummer that for a lot of them this is a standard now and that they have this at the expense of the rest of Star Wars. I'm already tired of that rhetoric (elsewhere, that's not a dig at anyone here).

I'm glad we have this, too. It's a pleasant and well made diversion. A very nice balance. And I'll be the first to cheer on Tony's Mothma series!

People want compelling stories with rich characters and visual spectacle. They want their imagination to run wild. It's awfully reductive to say that older "dudes" can only be satisfied by dark and gritty stories. We (yes I said we) want something with a soul and a strong creative voice. I find myself comparing this season to Skeleton Crew. Both are highly successful for different reasons, but they're both ultimately still Star Wars. One aims for the thrill ride fun and the other for the political maneuvering and reflection of current events.

Are you letting the rhetoric color your impression of the show too much? This is something I think about as I find myself watching shows well after the cultural buzz has died down. I find myself asking, "wait, this is what the fuss was all about?" often.

[epilogue]

This captures the vastness of the SW galaxy very well. It also perfectly showcases the mixture of analog and digital technology that gives SW its unique style. Both of those are just as crucial as the pulp and whimsy of the OT trilogy.

I mostly agree.

It's a tone thing. If you took these events out of the Star Wars galaxy, nothing changes. There's obviously a nostalgic attachment to iconography. But that's really it. Again, minor criticism. Just something I felt while watching the series. Season Two did a much better job by incorporating more aliens and connecting directly to established canon. But it still felt lacking overall, to me. It's capable of doing those other things that you call "just as crucial" but it doesn't do any of the pulp. If the show didn't balance analog and digital tech well or didn't show the vastness of the galaxy, I think one would be totally in line mentioning those things as minor flaws in the show. It works both ways.

I understand that a large part of the appeal is that dudes who saw the OT when they were kids have now grown up and want Star Wars to grow up with them in the same way. They want dark and gritty. They want "grounded". And I'm glad those dudes have this. It's a bummer that for a lot of them this is a standard now and that they have this at the expense of the rest of Star Wars. I'm already tired of that rhetoric (elsewhere, that's not a dig at anyone here).

I'm glad we have this, too. It's a pleasant and well made diversion. A very nice balance. And I'll be the first to cheer on Tony's Mothma series!

People want compelling stories with rich characters and visual spectacle. They want their imagination to run wild. It's awfully reductive to say that older "dudes" can only be satisfied by dark and gritty stories. We (yes I said we) want something with a soul and a strong creative voice. I find myself comparing this season to Skeleton Crew. Both are highly successful for different reasons, but they're both ultimately still Star Wars. One aims for the thrill ride fun and the other for the political maneuvering and reflection of current events.

Are you letting the rhetoric color your impression of the show too much? This is something I think about as I find myself watching shows well after the cultural buzz has died down. I find myself asking, "wait, this is what the fuss was all about?" often.

You seem offended. My apologies, if that's the case. Nothing I said above was aimed at you or anyone here (as I stated outright). Please don't take any of it personally.

No, I'm not letting rhetoric color my impression of the show. I'm just reacting to the show. A show, by the way, that I'm on record calling one of the best shows on TV. In a show as deservedly lauded and praised as Andor is, I have a couple of very minor criticisms. Just subjective observations. Opinions that I wanted to express with a community of people that I like talking Star Wars with. I'm not demanding that anyone else agree. I'm enjoying reading everyone's thoughts (except Bi's), and I look forward to keeping the conversation going for a long time.

[Monkey_Driven]

This captures the vastness of the SW galaxy very well. It also perfectly showcases the mixture of analog and digital technology that gives SW its unique style. Both of those are just as crucial as the pulp and whimsy of the OT trilogy.

I mostly agree.

It's a tone thing. If you took these events out of the Star Wars galaxy, nothing changes. There's obviously a nostalgic attachment to iconography. But that's really it. Again, minor criticism. Just something I felt while watching the series. Season Two did a much better job by incorporating more aliens and connecting directly to established canon. But it still felt lacking overall, to me. It's capable of doing those other things that you call "just as crucial" but it doesn't do any of the pulp. If the show didn't balance analog and digital tech well or didn't show the vastness of the galaxy, I think one would be totally in line mentioning those things as minor flaws in the show. It works both ways.

I understand that a large part of the appeal is that dudes who saw the OT when they were kids have now grown up and want Star Wars to grow up with them in the same way. They want dark and gritty. They want "grounded". And I'm glad those dudes have this. It's a bummer that for a lot of them this is a standard now and that they have this at the expense of the rest of Star Wars. I'm already tired of that rhetoric (elsewhere, that's not a dig at anyone here).

I'm glad we have this, too. It's a pleasant and well made diversion. A very nice balance. And I'll be the first to cheer on Tony's Mothma series!

People want compelling stories with rich characters and visual spectacle. They want their imagination to run wild. It's awfully reductive to say that older "dudes" can only be satisfied by dark and gritty stories. We (yes I said we) want something with a soul and a strong creative voice. I find myself comparing this season to Skeleton Crew. Both are highly successful for different reasons, but they're both ultimately still Star Wars. One aims for the thrill ride fun and the other for the political maneuvering and reflection of current events.

Are you letting the rhetoric color your impression of the show too much? This is something I think about as I find myself watching shows well after the cultural buzz has died down. I find myself asking, "wait, this is what the fuss was all about?" often.

You seem offended. My apologies, if that's the case. Nothing I said above was aimed at you or anyone here (as I stated outright). Please don't take any of it personally.

No, I'm not letting rhetoric color my impression of the show. I'm just reacting to the show. A show, by the way, that I'm on record calling one of the best shows on TV. In a show as deservedly lauded and praised as Andor is, I have a couple of very minor criticisms. Just subjective observations. Opinions that I wanted to express with a community of people that I like talking Star Wars with. I'm not demanding that anyone else agree. I'm enjoying reading everyone's thoughts (except Bi's), and I look forward to keeping the conversation going for a long time.

I'm not offended at all! More confused by your criticism that this doesn't feel like SW.

If anything, I fear this discourse is distracting us from focusing on Palestine.

[epilogue]

This captures the vastness of the SW galaxy very well. It also perfectly showcases the mixture of analog and digital technology that gives SW its unique style. Both of those are just as crucial as the pulp and whimsy of the OT trilogy.

I mostly agree.

It's a tone thing. If you took these events out of the Star Wars galaxy, nothing changes. There's obviously a nostalgic attachment to iconography. But that's really it. Again, minor criticism. Just something I felt while watching the series. Season Two did a much better job by incorporating more aliens and connecting directly to established canon. But it still felt lacking overall, to me. It's capable of doing those other things that you call "just as crucial" but it doesn't do any of the pulp. If the show didn't balance analog and digital tech well or didn't show the vastness of the galaxy, I think one would be totally in line mentioning those things as minor flaws in the show. It works both ways.

I understand that a large part of the appeal is that dudes who saw the OT when they were kids have now grown up and want Star Wars to grow up with them in the same way. They want dark and gritty. They want "grounded". And I'm glad those dudes have this. It's a bummer that for a lot of them this is a standard now and that they have this at the expense of the rest of Star Wars. I'm already tired of that rhetoric (elsewhere, that's not a dig at anyone here).

I'm glad we have this, too. It's a pleasant and well made diversion. A very nice balance. And I'll be the first to cheer on Tony's Mothma series!

People want compelling stories with rich characters and visual spectacle. They want their imagination to run wild. It's awfully reductive to say that older "dudes" can only be satisfied by dark and gritty stories. We (yes I said we) want something with a soul and a strong creative voice. I find myself comparing this season to Skeleton Crew. Both are highly successful for different reasons, but they're both ultimately still Star Wars. One aims for the thrill ride fun and the other for the political maneuvering and reflection of current events.

Are you letting the rhetoric color your impression of the show too much? This is something I think about as I find myself watching shows well after the cultural buzz has died down. I find myself asking, "wait, this is what the fuss was all about?" often.

You seem offended. My apologies, if that's the case. Nothing I said above was aimed at you or anyone here (as I stated outright). Please don't take any of it personally.

No, I'm not letting rhetoric color my impression of the show. I'm just reacting to the show. A show, by the way, that I'm on record calling one of the best shows on TV. In a show as deservedly lauded and praised as Andor is, I have a couple of very minor criticisms. Just subjective observations. Opinions that I wanted to express with a community of people that I like talking Star Wars with. I'm not demanding that anyone else agree. I'm enjoying reading everyone's thoughts (except Bi's), and I look forward to keeping the conversation going for a long time.

I'm not offended at all! More confused by your criticism that this doesn't feel like SW.

If anything, I fear this discourse is distracting us from focusing on Palestine.

[epilogue]

Did any of y'all see those theories/discussions online that Kleya is Cassian's sister after that final arc? Did any of you guys have that thought while watching?

[E.H. Ruddock]

Bi, as respectful and totally normal as always.

I mean, he's not wrong about SW fans gatekeeping. Look at this thread!

[epilogue]

Bi, as respectful and totally normal as always.

I mean, he's not wrong about SW fans gatekeeping. Look at this thread!

He accuses others of broad, sweeping generalizations by making broad sweeping generalizations! And then his generalizations get defended.

Of course, there are terrible gatekeepers in the fandom. And that shit isn't cool. It sucks.

[Bi_3]

Bi, as respectful and totally normal as always.

Yes, I am poking at you. It’s not because I want you to worship Andor or be annoyed or trolled or anything like that, it’s that I’ve noticed you doing this thing in your posts where you seem to put these walls up around yourself and rationalize your opinions through statements of opposition to things based their association to people or ideas you don’t like (the ‘rhetoric’). This frustrates me as a reader because I’ve been reading your posts for a decade+ now and I think you have unique perspectives and interesting insights on many topics, but it seems like something has changed and that voice has been lost in this need to declare yourself not “them”. Maybe it’s me and I am being more shallow and judgmental in my reading of your content here, but I miss the DCT style posts. I have no issue complying with you telling me to fuck off over this and not respond to you anymore, just know I’m coming from respect not dislike even if I am failing to get that across

[@SkitchP]

Did any of y'all see those theories/discussions online that Kleya is Cassian's sister after that final arc? Did any of you guys have that thought while watching?

I had a brief passing fear in the moment,

Like IsRael about to be essentially Cassians step dad?

But it passed quickly. I don't think they intended that thought.

[epilogue]

Bi, as respectful and totally normal as always.

Yes, I am poking at you. It’s not because I want you to worship Andor or be annoyed or trolled or anything like that, it’s that I’ve noticed you doing this thing in your posts where you seem to put these walls up around yourself and rationalize your opinions through statements of opposition to things based their association to people or ideas you don’t like (the ‘rhetoric’). This frustrates me as a reader because I’ve been reading your posts for a decade+ now and I think you have unique perspectives and interesting insights on many topics, but it seems like something has changed and that voice has been lost in this need to declare yourself not “them”. Maybe it’s me and I am being more shallow and judgmental in my reading of your content here, but I miss the DCT style posts. I have no issue complying with you telling me to fuck off over this and not respond to you anymore, just know I’m coming from respect not dislike even if I am failing to get that across

You agreed with me like two pages ago!

I think scenes with K2 in S2 did have some of the whimsy you mentioned, but I agree the tone and structure of the dialogue does set it significantly apart from most of the IP

[McParadigm]

Andor became exceptional because it saw its characters as three dimensional, with their own internal struggles and arcs, and it didn’t hold our hands in understanding what those journeys were. It just showed them to us, and trusted us to understand it all. It didn’t reduce anything or anyone to convenience, plot device, or exposition…not unless absolutely necessary.

That’s something that could be done in any of the other Star Wars content as well, but it’s simply not the ambition most of the time. The other content shortcuts the narrative, simplifies and flattens the characters, and expositions the dialogue….because those aren’t the things they think are most important to get right. Those aren’t the things they think are going to bring you into the project.

Character and story are useful tools. Tools, not ambitions. They are only allowed to be as good as they can achieve without interfering with the actual point, which is to create an opportunity for Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader to have a jack off fight at the climax in of episode 2. Or to create a mystery box that you will speculate about online, and will click Star Wars YouTube videos about.

They simply don’t see the story as the point, and you only have to look at what kind of projects they greenlight to understand the characters are seen as “things that generate clicks.” Characterization and story are simply not the things they think have to be great, in order for you to seek out their project.

Andor is what happens when you get an exceptionally talented storyteller and the production designer from Chernobyl, and give them the opportunity to tell a story that doesn’t require a nod to Han Solo‘s dice, a bunch of lore drops, or mystery box season-long reveals. It could be done with the Jedi just as easily as without….but why would they do that? Fan bases today are mostly communities of people seeking community. They like finding groups of other people who like the thing they like, and they like being excited about it together. They’re getting something out of that.

The best way to mine that audience is to focus on projects that can be advertised as showing them things they already want to see. That’s the whole game.

[epilogue]

So many valid and interesting points undercut by petty cheap shots that don't need to be taken.

Anyway, I'm glad you like the show.