TV: Pluribus (Apple TV)

[Ms Harmless]

I am pretty surprised that when the yahoos suggested they all go to the Guggenheim, Carol didn’t pick up on the fact that, yeah, art is nice, but once they’re all assimilated, that’s a wrap for the artistic project of mankind. Everyone understanding each other is the death knell for that. I think it’s a stroke of genius making her a romantasy author who churns out slop; when that guy started mansplaining mizzenmasts to her I was lol’ing.

what do you mean by "the artistic project of human kind"? And why can't there still be art when there is one shared consciousness?

Why would anyone make art if there’s no obstacles to connecting with or understanding other people? You don’t have to express yourself and your innermost desires, fears, or anxieties if every other mind on the planet has instant access to your entire consciousness. Carol was feeling so empty before the incident because she knew exactly what her audience wanted and she fed them exactly what they wanted; there was no empathy, no discovery, just checking off boxes. A machine could’ve done what she was doing.

Shit, I wasn’t convinced this show was about AI and now I feel like I talked myself into it. Thanks a lot!

If pain and suffering are necessary for the sake of art, I say fuck art! Why can't art exist without the pain and suffering inflicted by the "other"? If humanity shared one consciousness, surely it still would desire beauty, but of a more elevated kind, difficult for one single mind to imagine.

is there anything left to desire if we have instant access to everything?

[tree_]

I am pretty surprised that when the yahoos suggested they all go to the Guggenheim, Carol didn’t pick up on the fact that, yeah, art is nice, but once they’re all assimilated, that’s a wrap for the artistic project of mankind. Everyone understanding each other is the death knell for that. I think it’s a stroke of genius making her a romantasy author who churns out slop; when that guy started mansplaining mizzenmasts to her I was lol’ing.

what do you mean by "the artistic project of human kind"? And why can't there still be art when there is one shared consciousness?

Why would anyone make art if there’s no obstacles to connecting with or understanding other people? You don’t have to express yourself and your innermost desires, fears, or anxieties if every other mind on the planet has instant access to your entire consciousness. Carol was feeling so empty before the incident because she knew exactly what her audience wanted and she fed them exactly what they wanted; there was no empathy, no discovery, just checking off boxes. A machine could’ve done what she was doing.

Shit, I wasn’t convinced this show was about AI and now I feel like I talked myself into it. Thanks a lot!

If pain and suffering are necessary for the sake of art, I say fuck art! Why can't art exist without the pain and suffering inflicted by the "other"? If humanity shared one consciousness, surely it still would desire beauty, but of a more elevated kind, difficult for one single mind to imagine.

I think you misunderstand where I’m coming from: I didn’t say pain and suffering are necessary for art, but I can see how that could come across with “fears” and “anxieties.” Replace those with anything you like—as long as there have been people, there’s been a limit to how much language can express what we feel inside and how much we understand others, and art absolutely bridges that gap (“Man, you won’t believe how crazy the mammoth hunt was today…no, I can’t explain it, you had to be there…here, let me draw it on the cave wall”), so if there’s no gap anymore, why would there be art?

Exactly! So, if there's no more struggle, or gap in communication which produces the need for that kind of art, what's the problem?

Even if we’re all designed to seek beauty, I don’t think the collective consciousness has the need to make any more of it; someone in the 8 billion minds has memorized the poems of Omar Khayyam, so no one needs to read those books anymore. Every brain remembers it instantly. Someone once restored the Mona Lisa and knows it brushstroke by brushstroke, so no one has to ever go see it again. Someone has seen the sun set over the Grand Canyon, someone has seen the northern lights, someone is a virtuoso violin player. At least one person has seen the most beautiful woman in the world. Once we’ve seen these things, we have an urge to experience them again, because it can be fresh every time, but if you’re part of a group consciousness with perfect recall, what’s the point?

It seems to me there's simply much greater bandwidth for feeling and desiring. Not lack of capacity, but super capacity. If the desire is to experience that beauty, what about the novelty of it is important? The feelings and experiences are there, ever-present. It's why they're so damned happy!

[tree_]

I am pretty surprised that when the yahoos suggested they all go to the Guggenheim, Carol didn’t pick up on the fact that, yeah, art is nice, but once they’re all assimilated, that’s a wrap for the artistic project of mankind. Everyone understanding each other is the death knell for that. I think it’s a stroke of genius making her a romantasy author who churns out slop; when that guy started mansplaining mizzenmasts to her I was lol’ing.

what do you mean by "the artistic project of human kind"? And why can't there still be art when there is one shared consciousness?

Why would anyone make art if there’s no obstacles to connecting with or understanding other people? You don’t have to express yourself and your innermost desires, fears, or anxieties if every other mind on the planet has instant access to your entire consciousness. Carol was feeling so empty before the incident because she knew exactly what her audience wanted and she fed them exactly what they wanted; there was no empathy, no discovery, just checking off boxes. A machine could’ve done what she was doing.

Shit, I wasn’t convinced this show was about AI and now I feel like I talked myself into it. Thanks a lot!

If pain and suffering are necessary for the sake of art, I say fuck art! Why can't art exist without the pain and suffering inflicted by the "other"? If humanity shared one consciousness, surely it still would desire beauty, but of a more elevated kind, difficult for one single mind to imagine.

is there anything left to desire if we have instant access to everything?

There's infinite space to explore. We know nothing, relative to the universe. Blast off, send the signal everywhere, bind with all consciousness for ultimate experience!

[Simple Torture]

I am pretty surprised that when the yahoos suggested they all go to the Guggenheim, Carol didn’t pick up on the fact that, yeah, art is nice, but once they’re all assimilated, that’s a wrap for the artistic project of mankind. Everyone understanding each other is the death knell for that. I think it’s a stroke of genius making her a romantasy author who churns out slop; when that guy started mansplaining mizzenmasts to her I was lol’ing.

what do you mean by "the artistic project of human kind"? And why can't there still be art when there is one shared consciousness?

Why would anyone make art if there’s no obstacles to connecting with or understanding other people? You don’t have to express yourself and your innermost desires, fears, or anxieties if every other mind on the planet has instant access to your entire consciousness. Carol was feeling so empty before the incident because she knew exactly what her audience wanted and she fed them exactly what they wanted; there was no empathy, no discovery, just checking off boxes. A machine could’ve done what she was doing.

Shit, I wasn’t convinced this show was about AI and now I feel like I talked myself into it. Thanks a lot!

If pain and suffering are necessary for the sake of art, I say fuck art! Why can't art exist without the pain and suffering inflicted by the "other"? If humanity shared one consciousness, surely it still would desire beauty, but of a more elevated kind, difficult for one single mind to imagine.

is there anything left to desire if we have instant access to everything?

How dare you say in one sentence what I spent 3 paragraphs spewing out

[Ms Harmless]

I am pretty surprised that when the yahoos suggested they all go to the Guggenheim, Carol didn’t pick up on the fact that, yeah, art is nice, but once they’re all assimilated, that’s a wrap for the artistic project of mankind. Everyone understanding each other is the death knell for that. I think it’s a stroke of genius making her a romantasy author who churns out slop; when that guy started mansplaining mizzenmasts to her I was lol’ing.

what do you mean by "the artistic project of human kind"? And why can't there still be art when there is one shared consciousness?

Why would anyone make art if there’s no obstacles to connecting with or understanding other people? You don’t have to express yourself and your innermost desires, fears, or anxieties if every other mind on the planet has instant access to your entire consciousness. Carol was feeling so empty before the incident because she knew exactly what her audience wanted and she fed them exactly what they wanted; there was no empathy, no discovery, just checking off boxes. A machine could’ve done what she was doing.

Shit, I wasn’t convinced this show was about AI and now I feel like I talked myself into it. Thanks a lot!

If pain and suffering are necessary for the sake of art, I say fuck art! Why can't art exist without the pain and suffering inflicted by the "other"? If humanity shared one consciousness, surely it still would desire beauty, but of a more elevated kind, difficult for one single mind to imagine.

is there anything left to desire if we have instant access to everything?

There's infinite space to explore. We know nothing, relative to the universe. Blast off, send the signal everywhere, bind with all consciousness for ultimate experience!

well, that is one incentive to move on once the planet dies

[Ms Harmless]

I am pretty surprised that when the yahoos suggested they all go to the Guggenheim, Carol didn’t pick up on the fact that, yeah, art is nice, but once they’re all assimilated, that’s a wrap for the artistic project of mankind. Everyone understanding each other is the death knell for that. I think it’s a stroke of genius making her a romantasy author who churns out slop; when that guy started mansplaining mizzenmasts to her I was lol’ing.

what do you mean by "the artistic project of human kind"? And why can't there still be art when there is one shared consciousness?

Why would anyone make art if there’s no obstacles to connecting with or understanding other people? You don’t have to express yourself and your innermost desires, fears, or anxieties if every other mind on the planet has instant access to your entire consciousness. Carol was feeling so empty before the incident because she knew exactly what her audience wanted and she fed them exactly what they wanted; there was no empathy, no discovery, just checking off boxes. A machine could’ve done what she was doing.

Shit, I wasn’t convinced this show was about AI and now I feel like I talked myself into it. Thanks a lot!

If pain and suffering are necessary for the sake of art, I say fuck art! Why can't art exist without the pain and suffering inflicted by the "other"? If humanity shared one consciousness, surely it still would desire beauty, but of a more elevated kind, difficult for one single mind to imagine.

is there anything left to desire if we have instant access to everything?

How dare you say in one sentence what I spent 3 paragraphs spewing out

yes but you did it so ARTFULLY

[tree_]

One problem could be that the hive-mind is bogged down by the lowest common denominator. That'd be a fun development. But that doesn't seem to be the case since they can still fly planes and stuff. But maybe in other ways it is.

[Simple Torture]

tree, it sounds like you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that the struggle to communicate effectively with language is a bad thing, maybe even harmful? And that you’d be willing to give up your individuality to erase it forever? I think I’d understand if we were talking about purely harmful, traumatic things—like if there was no Holocaust there’d be no Schindler’s List, which is an amazing piece of art, but I think we’d all make that trade (I HOPE). But art does more than relay trauma, it can certainly be used to express happiness, joy, revelation, etc. If language could express perfectly then there would be no comedy—would you willfully exchange every belly-shaking laugh you’ve ever had just so people wouldn’t have to come up with different ways to express themselves? I don’t see those things as equivalent.

[tree_]

tree, it sounds like you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that the struggle to communicate effectively with language is a bad thing, maybe even harmful? And that you’d be willing to give up your individuality to erase it forever? I think I’d understand if we were talking about purely harmful, traumatic things—like if there was no Holocaust there’d be no Schindler’s List, which is an amazing piece of art, but I think we’d all make that trade (I HOPE). But art does more than relay trauma, it can certainly be used to express happiness, joy, revelation, etc. If language could express perfectly then there would be no comedy—would you willfully exchange every belly-shaking laugh you’ve ever had just so people wouldn’t have to come up with different ways to express themselves? I don’t see those things as equivalent.

The belly laugh comes from "oh, that makes sense! I get that! I've experienced that too!" Existing in the hive-mind is like imagining a funny joke and enjoying it as the audience simultaneously. There's simply no longer an other needed to experience it. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[wease]

tree, it sounds like you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that the struggle to communicate effectively with language is a bad thing, maybe even harmful? And that you’d be willing to give up your individuality to erase it forever? I think I’d understand if we were talking about purely harmful, traumatic things—like if there was no Holocaust there’d be no Schindler’s List, which is an amazing piece of art, but I think we’d all make that trade (I HOPE). But art does more than relay trauma, it can certainly be used to express happiness, joy, revelation, etc. If language could express perfectly then there would be no comedy—would you willfully exchange every belly-shaking laugh you’ve ever had just so people wouldn’t have to come up with different ways to express themselves? I don’t see those things as equivalent.

The belly laugh comes from "oh, that makes sense! I get that! I've experienced that too!" Existing in the hive-mind is like imagining a funny joke and enjoying it as the audience simultaneously. There's simply no longer an other needed to experience it. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

But there would be no joke because it would be in everyone’s mind at the same time. There would be no need for anyone to express themselves in any way because each person is everyone.

[tree_]

Oh, so the hive-mind's inability to withstand aggression from an outside force will surely be its downfall, and I guess that will be when Carol (and/or the other immune people) will need to save the day? I guess its only solution is to spread to all conscious entities before they can attack. Oh, maybe the animals will start to attack them once they discover how weak they've become. Or maybe they can spread their consciousness to the animals too. This can go in so many directions. I really hope they don't fuck it up.

[tree_]

tree, it sounds like you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that the struggle to communicate effectively with language is a bad thing, maybe even harmful? And that you’d be willing to give up your individuality to erase it forever? I think I’d understand if we were talking about purely harmful, traumatic things—like if there was no Holocaust there’d be no Schindler’s List, which is an amazing piece of art, but I think we’d all make that trade (I HOPE). But art does more than relay trauma, it can certainly be used to express happiness, joy, revelation, etc. If language could express perfectly then there would be no comedy—would you willfully exchange every belly-shaking laugh you’ve ever had just so people wouldn’t have to come up with different ways to express themselves? I don’t see those things as equivalent.

The belly laugh comes from "oh, that makes sense! I get that! I've experienced that too!" Existing in the hive-mind is like imagining a funny joke and enjoying it as the audience simultaneously. There's simply no longer an other needed to experience it. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

But there would be no joke because it would be in everyone’s mind at the same time. There would be no need for anyone to express themselves in any way because each person is everyone.

Maybe a more elevated humor, the kind only a hive-mind can understand. Have you ever laughed on the inside, without even cracking a smile? I have.

[Simple Torture]

tree, it sounds like you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that the struggle to communicate effectively with language is a bad thing, maybe even harmful? And that you’d be willing to give up your individuality to erase it forever? I think I’d understand if we were talking about purely harmful, traumatic things—like if there was no Holocaust there’d be no Schindler’s List, which is an amazing piece of art, but I think we’d all make that trade (I HOPE). But art does more than relay trauma, it can certainly be used to express happiness, joy, revelation, etc. If language could express perfectly then there would be no comedy—would you willfully exchange every belly-shaking laugh you’ve ever had just so people wouldn’t have to come up with different ways to express themselves? I don’t see those things as equivalent.

The belly laugh comes from "oh, that makes sense! I get that! I've experienced that too!" Existing in the hive-mind is like imagining a funny joke and enjoying it as the audience simultaneously. There's simply no longer an other needed to experience it. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I agree with this, sort of. As harmless said, no new jokes would be needed, but, sure, we’ll all remember the best jokes of all time, there just isn’t any need to come up with any news ones. “Imagination” is basically gone. I think where I started on the last page, and what I thought you disagreed with, is that this instant gratification will never have to be replicated, and therefore, art becomes obsolete. That is, the production of new art, which has always been required to foster empathy, is no longer required. I guess we do agree, except on the point that I would not make that trade, in fact I think it’s monstrous,

[Simple Torture]

FWIW, tree, I think you’re really digging into the ideas of this show in a way that I dig, I just don’t agree with your conclusion. This is fun! This is in no way like when I crucified dime for just being WRONG about Andor.

[epilogue]

You're welcome

[tree_]

tree, it sounds like you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that the struggle to communicate effectively with language is a bad thing, maybe even harmful? And that you’d be willing to give up your individuality to erase it forever? I think I’d understand if we were talking about purely harmful, traumatic things—like if there was no Holocaust there’d be no Schindler’s List, which is an amazing piece of art, but I think we’d all make that trade (I HOPE). But art does more than relay trauma, it can certainly be used to express happiness, joy, revelation, etc. If language could express perfectly then there would be no comedy—would you willfully exchange every belly-shaking laugh you’ve ever had just so people wouldn’t have to come up with different ways to express themselves? I don’t see those things as equivalent.

The belly laugh comes from "oh, that makes sense! I get that! I've experienced that too!" Existing in the hive-mind is like imagining a funny joke and enjoying it as the audience simultaneously. There's simply no longer an other needed to experience it. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I agree with this, sort of. As harmless said, no new jokes would be needed, but, sure, we’ll all remember the best jokes of all time, there just isn’t any need to come up with any news ones. “Imagination” is basically gone. I think where I started on the last page, and what I thought you disagreed with, is that this instant gratification will never have to be replicated, and therefore, art becomes obsolete. That is, the production of new art, which has always been required to foster empathy, is no longer required. I guess we do agree, except on the point that I would not make that trade, in fact I think it’s monstrous,

The desire to create art comes from a deep need for connection, understanding, acceptance. Once you've integrated into the hive mind, you're there already. So yeah no more new art in that way anymore. And it's hard to imagine what comes next. But I don't see the problem with that

[Ms Harmless]

jokes and jump-scares are the same thing: tension and release; without the element of surprise there is neither

[epilogue]

tree, it sounds like you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong) that the struggle to communicate effectively with language is a bad thing, maybe even harmful? And that you’d be willing to give up your individuality to erase it forever? I think I’d understand if we were talking about purely harmful, traumatic things—like if there was no Holocaust there’d be no Schindler’s List, which is an amazing piece of art, but I think we’d all make that trade (I HOPE). But art does more than relay trauma, it can certainly be used to express happiness, joy, revelation, etc. If language could express perfectly then there would be no comedy—would you willfully exchange every belly-shaking laugh you’ve ever had just so people wouldn’t have to come up with different ways to express themselves? I don’t see those things as equivalent.

The belly laugh comes from "oh, that makes sense! I get that! I've experienced that too!" Existing in the hive-mind is like imagining a funny joke and enjoying it as the audience simultaneously. There's simply no longer an other needed to experience it. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I agree with this, sort of. As harmless said, no new jokes would be needed, but, sure, we’ll all remember the best jokes of all time, there just isn’t any need to come up with any news ones. “Imagination” is basically gone. I think where I started on the last page, and what I thought you disagreed with, is that this instant gratification will never have to be replicated, and therefore, art becomes obsolete. That is, the production of new art, which has always been required to foster empathy, is no longer required. I guess we do agree, except on the point that I would not make that trade, in fact I think it’s monstrous,

The desire to create art comes from a deep need for connection, understanding, acceptance. Once you've integrated into the hive mind, you're there already. So yeah no more new art in that way anymore. And it's hard to imagine what comes next. But I don't see the problem with that

That sounds like hell to me

[Simple Torture]

jokes and jump-scares are the same thing: tension and release; without the element of surprise there is neither

I can think of another form of tension and release that the hive mind probably won’t need.

[tree_]

I find your lack of understanding troubling. Guys, they're blissed out! Don't you want to be happy?!