Iran

[spike]

i are persian food last night

and today for lunch (leftovers)

Taking your magic carpet to work in the morning?

[Simple Torture]

i are persian food last night

and today for lunch (leftovers)

Taking your magic carpet to work in the morning?

Watch out for the Iron Dome.

[Anders]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

[LoathedVermin72]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics.

[Anders]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics.

I'm writing facts, not ideology.

[LoathedVermin72]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics.

I'm writing facts, not ideology.

Nothing is that straightforward when we’re dealing with stuff like this. For a million reasons.

For one, “attacking peaceful nations” is not just a fact - that “peaceful” is very much an ideologically loaded adjective doing a lot of heavy lifting in the worldview you are espousing.

[Anders]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics.

I'm writing facts, not ideology.

Nothing is that straightforward when we’re dealing with stuff like this. For a million reasons.

For one, “attacking peaceful nations” is not just a fact - that “peaceful” is very much an ideologically loaded adjective doing a lot of heavy lifting in the worldview you are espousing.

Ukraine is a peaceful nation. It had not attacked anyone, when it was attacked. That is not based on any ideology, just fact.

I have been there. I have family there, whose house, property and town is now occupied by Russia. Many of their friends murdered.

[LoathedVermin72]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics.

I'm writing facts, not ideology.

Nothing is that straightforward when we’re dealing with stuff like this. For a million reasons.

For one, “attacking peaceful nations” is not just a fact - that “peaceful” is very much an ideologically loaded adjective doing a lot of heavy lifting in the worldview you are espousing.

Ukraine is a peaceful nation. It had not attacked anyone, when it was attacked. That is not based on any ideology, just fact.

I have been there. I have family there, whose house, property and town is now occupied by Russia. Many of their friends murdered.

This is very much an ideological interpretation. I do not consider a buffer state that has been repeatedly compromised by US covert operations and groomed for NATO membership to be peaceful toward Russia at all. Russia has a right to defend itself against US/NATO aggression.

War is a horrible thing and it's a terrible tragedy for everyone caught in the crossfire, of course. But I'm afraid I do not form geopolitical opinions based on your friends and family, and I do not think Ukraine is a blameless victim in this.

[Anders]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics.

I'm writing facts, not ideology.

Nothing is that straightforward when we’re dealing with stuff like this. For a million reasons.

For one, “attacking peaceful nations” is not just a fact - that “peaceful” is very much an ideologically loaded adjective doing a lot of heavy lifting in the worldview you are espousing.

Ukraine is a peaceful nation. It had not attacked anyone, when it was attacked. That is not based on any ideology, just fact.

I have been there. I have family there, whose house, property and town is now occupied by Russia. Many of their friends murdered.

This is very much an ideological interpretation. I do not consider a buffer state that has been repeatedly compromised by US covert operations and groomed for NATO membership to be peaceful toward Russia at all. Russia has a right to defend itself against US/NATO aggression.

War is a horrible thing and it's a terrible tragedy for everyone caught in the crossfire, of course. But I'm afraid I do not form geopolitical opinions based on your friends and family, and I do not think Ukraine is a blameless victim in this.

Considering Ukraine a buffer state, a sovereign European nation, with more than 44 million people living there, is baffling and cruel. Russia should care about its own people within its own borders, not time and time again attack its neighbors.

I guess Norway is just a buffer state in your opinion as well. We are a US ally with a border to Russia.

[Jorge]

Not to derail the conversation about Ukraine, just want to lend support to LV's point that US-led regime change operations have often produced disastrous outcomes. Skepticism about US interventionism in the region is historically grounded!

[VinylGuy]

yeah team LV, in every opinion he had here.

[spike]

Not to derail the conversation about Ukraine, just want to lend support to LV's point that US-led regime change operations have often produced disastrous outcomes. Skepticism about US interventionism in the region is historically grounded!

Specifically, the US is bad at the reconstruction part, and it appears it will be no different this time.

On who might emerge to lead Iran, Trump said, “We don’t know who the leadership is. We don’t know who they’ll pick. Maybe they’ll get lucky and get someone who knows what they’re doing.”

[spike]

Fwiw, I don’t think anyone knows how to do that part in modern times.

[LoathedVermin72]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics.

I'm writing facts, not ideology.

Nothing is that straightforward when we’re dealing with stuff like this. For a million reasons.

For one, “attacking peaceful nations” is not just a fact - that “peaceful” is very much an ideologically loaded adjective doing a lot of heavy lifting in the worldview you are espousing.

Ukraine is a peaceful nation. It had not attacked anyone, when it was attacked. That is not based on any ideology, just fact.

I have been there. I have family there, whose house, property and town is now occupied by Russia. Many of their friends murdered.

This is very much an ideological interpretation. I do not consider a buffer state that has been repeatedly compromised by US covert operations and groomed for NATO membership to be peaceful toward Russia at all. Russia has a right to defend itself against US/NATO aggression.

War is a horrible thing and it's a terrible tragedy for everyone caught in the crossfire, of course. But I'm afraid I do not form geopolitical opinions based on your friends and family, and I do not think Ukraine is a blameless victim in this.

Considering Ukraine a buffer state, a sovereign European nation, with more than 44 million people living there, is baffling and cruel. Russia should care about its own people within its own borders, not time and time again attack its neighbors.

I guess Norway is just a buffer state in your opinion as well. We are a US ally with a border to Russia.

As I said before, things are never that straightforward when we're dealing with stuff like this. Calling Ukraine a "buffer state" is not any kind of value judgment against it or its sovereignty.

In a perfect world (or, perhaps, a world where every nation exists in a vacuum), every sovereign nation would concern itself solely with its own citizens. But we do not live in that world. And that is certainly not a realistic expectation of a nation like Russia, which has been - in one form or another - under nearly constant threat from the US for over 100 years. It's simply an unfortunate fact of life that many nations become victims of geography and circumstance in conflicts like this between world powers (and even calling it that isn't entirely fair since the conflict is asymmetrical - as it would be for pretty much any nation when the enemy is US hegemony).

[Anders]

Two things can be true at the same time. A regime can be bad and it can be good that a tyrant was killed. (I certainly have no love for theocracies.) But it is also extremely fucking bad when the US kills foreign leaders, and historically it always ends horrendously. The US is not doing this and never has done these things out of any sense of compassion for suffering peoples. They have an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with that.

I also do not share your feelings about the Russia/Ukraine war, and do not see a regime allying themselves with Russia as inherently negative.

Putin’s regime is as bad as the one in Iran. He has two close allies, North Korea and Iran. All three suppressing their own people, killing jounalists and political opposition, attacking peaceful nations.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics.

I'm writing facts, not ideology.

Nothing is that straightforward when we’re dealing with stuff like this. For a million reasons.

For one, “attacking peaceful nations” is not just a fact - that “peaceful” is very much an ideologically loaded adjective doing a lot of heavy lifting in the worldview you are espousing.

Ukraine is a peaceful nation. It had not attacked anyone, when it was attacked. That is not based on any ideology, just fact.

I have been there. I have family there, whose house, property and town is now occupied by Russia. Many of their friends murdered.

This is very much an ideological interpretation. I do not consider a buffer state that has been repeatedly compromised by US covert operations and groomed for NATO membership to be peaceful toward Russia at all. Russia has a right to defend itself against US/NATO aggression.

War is a horrible thing and it's a terrible tragedy for everyone caught in the crossfire, of course. But I'm afraid I do not form geopolitical opinions based on your friends and family, and I do not think Ukraine is a blameless victim in this.

Considering Ukraine a buffer state, a sovereign European nation, with more than 44 million people living there, is baffling and cruel. Russia should care about its own people within its own borders, not time and time again attack its neighbors.

I guess Norway is just a buffer state in your opinion as well. We are a US ally with a border to Russia.

As I said before, things are never that straightforward when we're dealing with stuff like this. Calling Ukraine a "buffer state" is not any kind of value judgment against it or its sovereignty.

In a perfect world (or, perhaps, a world where every nation exists in a vacuum), every sovereign nation would concern itself solely with its own citizens. But we do not live in that world. And that is certainly not a realistic expectation of a nation like Russia, which has been - in one form or another - under nearly constant threat from the US for over 100 years. It's simply an unfortunate fact of life that many nations become victims of geography and circumstance in conflicts like this between world powers (and even calling it that isn't entirely fair since the conflict is asymmetrical - as it would be for pretty much any nation when the enemy is US hegemony).

It is Russia that is a treat to every single neighbor it has. But I guess if Russia killed me next week, it would simply be justified, as Russia needs a buffer to the rest of the world, and can do whatever they want against their neighbors.

If you think US intervention had been disastrous, you should read up on Russian intervention.

As for Iran, we can only hope that they escape from the clutches of their regime and any Russian intervention.

[Anders]

Not to derail the conversation about Ukraine, just want to lend support to LV's point that US-led regime change operations have often produced disastrous outcomes. Skepticism about US interventionism in the region is historically grounded!

I believe almost any Iranian you meet will be happy about this intervention, and would be delighted if the regime falls. Doubt it can get any worse than it was in this case.

[Anders]

yeah team LV, in every opinion he had here.

We clearly live in an insane Putin-loving world.

[LoathedVermin72]

You seem to want to keep oversimplifying all of these issues into "Russia = evil" and "dead dictator = good" with no other nuance. So once again I will just say that these things are never that straightforward and I do not agree with your neoliberal assessment of geopolitics, and I'll leave it at that.

[Anders]

I do not have a «neoliberal assessment of geopolitics», so please stop writing that I do.

[Anders]

Dead dictator = good