A thread for talking about lyrics

[stip]

This thread is for talking about lyrics.

[epilogue]

I like lyrics.

[epilogue]

But not all lyrics.

[epilogue]

But in general, I'm saying.

[harmless]

Good thread. I will say something useful in it at some point, but first I wanted to register my interest.

[stip]

What stip thinks about the lyrics on lightning bolt:

Getaway: The verse two verses are pretty good. I like the sinking boat image that he's running with, and I wish that metaphor ran through the chorus. Other than the weird lizard lyric the third verse is pretty good too. However Getaway loses me a bit in the chorus. It's pretty wordy, most of these lyrics (other than the 'put all your faith in no faith' line) aren't anything special, and I'm not really a fan of the Footloose 'why won't the religious people just leave me alone' idea. Basically there are two different lyrical ideas smashed together. One I like. One is eh. Nothing embarassing, but nothing exciting.

Assessment: average

Mind Your Manners: This is really really good. The mind your manners title/lyric is quite clever, there is more religion bashing but it feels like there is something more at stake. Especially with the chorus/bridge (more on that in a second). The 'I caught myself believing that I needed God and if he's out there somewhere...' lyric is good, and I love the 'long love letter' line. The chorus is what really sells this song though. It makes it clear that religion (or new aged spirituality, if you like) is harmful not because it is religion, but when it encourages us to be passive, to put our faith in something other than ourselves. There is a similar sentiment in getaway. It is far more effective here.

Assessment: Very strong

My Father's Son: Terrible beginning. The song is supposed to be whinny and self-indulgent (and is vaguely critical of itself, I think) so there is some leeway given the subject matter, but for the most part there's nothing here that good. The chorus is okay. The bridge is pretty well written. The first half of it is a little obvious, but the second part is pretty good.

Assessment: eh

Sirens: It's overwrought in places (okay, a lot of places) but I like the sirens image and the overwroughtness works fine in the context of the song. Similar to how a really aggressive song can kind of carry you over the lyrics without drawing attention to them--the same thing is happening here, which is sort of odd since this is a song that also asks you to pay attention. The overwhelmend part, meme aside, is a nice line, as is the fear goes away bit. The catch my breathe to breath lyric gets a bad rap (it's not Shakespeare, but I hardly find it mockable) and the rest of this is overly sentimental in a way that is actually pretty appropriate for the song. That middle bit about the arms of another man makes you work too hard to make sense of it for it to be good

Assessment: average (below average in terms of the actual writing, elevated in the context of the song-which is a perfectly fair way to assess song lyrics)

Lightning Bolt: Okay, the first two verses are weak, and the chorus isn't great (although I've come around a bit on the lightning bolt image). The rest of this song is top notch writing. One of his finest outings since Binaural--lots of nice metaphors about the creative destruction inherent in art and inspiration, and it feels appropriately grand and expansive.

Assessment: strong

Infallible: if this was a song about how it's dangerous to always assume that you're right I would be less impressed. Well, actually, it is about that, but the twist that Eddie put on it is that we are so certain we're right/infallible about our own inability to take responsibility for this world, to make a difference in it (I wish there was a word for that). It links up nicely with mind your manners, and I think it is artfully done in that it needs to be big and clear given the message and the music, but is not totally obvious. Some pretty clever little self aware moments 'in the verse we curse ourselves' and the verse lyrics abut disengageent and retreat and justifying surrender through alleged weakness are good. I am a big fan of the 'time we best begin here at the ending' lyric--the way it sums up in one easy line everything this song is about.

Assessment: Very strong


Pendulum: It's an angsty song and so with all these kinds of songs it'll really come down to whether or not you are moved by it or think it is overwrought. I think the pendulum image was well chosen for the music, and the understated nature of the despair in here (the angst is softened by the resignation) makes this work. it's a simple set of lyrics for a mood piece, but they're all good, if somewhat obvious lines.

Assessment: Good

Swallowed Whole: The nature stuff can be a bit much at times, but many of the individual lyrics are actually quite nicely phrased and they fit the breathless liberation in the music. They're a bit obvious and touchy feel in the first two verses, but the chorus is pretty beautiful, and the anchor line 'what is clear far from the noise gets swallowed whole' is great. The bridge is good and the outro verse is also quite strong--the way the final 'and the chapter I've not read...turn the page' hints at new possibilities. In general I think it's a sign of good writing when the songs are in conversation with each other in a way that is artfully done, and I think that's the case here.

Assessment: Good (a bunch of very good moments, but some over the top stuff early on holds it back)

Let the Records Play: This is the third time Eddie's written a song about records. Lyrically this is easily the best. The little nods to self-destruction and oblivion are well done, the need to feel something, the heartbreak backstory, the longing in the chorus. No particularly amazing lyrics, but they're all solid.

Assessment: Good

Sleeping By Myself: Excellent opening lyric, nice central heartbreak image, the 'love and disaster' lyric is nice, and I like the childlike phrasing of the deepest disappointment in the bridge. Some of these lines would be pretty heavyhanded in a larger song, but they juxtapose really well with the lightness in the music. Oh, and the 'I'm beginning to see what's left of me is gonna have to be free to survive' is a pretty crushingly accurate assessment of what everyone feels like at that point in the breakup cycle. This is actually a very smart song hidden in the guise of something light and easy.

Assessment: Very strong

Yellow Moon: The Yellow Moon image is nice, the verse lyrics give the song a sense of drift that is appropriate for the subject, and the twin bridge lyrics are one striking image after another. All somewhat obvious perhaps, but effective, especially given how unadorned everything else is that comes before it. It gives those lines extra weight--we're looking for them to fill in empty spaces, instead of feeling crowded by them.

Assessment: very strong

Future Days: The phrasing in the chorus sucks, and while the future days idea is nice, it's not an elegant choice of words. This easily takes the worst chorus award (sorry Lightning bolt). And much of this is pretty sacharine, and much clunkier than Sirens, but the delivery is so sincere that it works in the song. Still, not great writing. Having said that, there are some genuinely touching moments in here. "you came deep as any ocean/did something out there here"/the complexities and games lyric, the apocalyptic scenes in the bridge coalescing into this image of a couple at peace. There are some gems here, but you have to weed through some over the top stuff to find them.

Assessment: ehh


Overall I think Lighting Bolt is a pretty well written album. One or two average songs, and one or two weak songs, but everything else is solid to great, and every song here has something redeemable in it.

[harmless]

It's 'in reverse we curse ourselves', stip. I remember because you had that 'verse' idea before we had the lyrics booklet, and I was surprised when I read the actual lyrics.

[stip]

ahh, so it is

[harmless]

It's about as frustrating as "red dress" being "records".

[Kevin Davis]

I think I'm more of a lyrics guy than most people on this board--I definitely don't share that "lyrics don't matter" mindset that seems so prevalent here.

In general I wouldn't say any of the members of Pearl Jam rate among my favorite lyricists but they do consistently churn out little snippets that perk my ears up. I've always liked this one:

"Plaque on the wall says that
No one's slept here
It's rare to come upon
A bridge that has not been around or been stepped on"

What's he going on about there?

[Birds in Hell]

It's not that lyrics don't matter at all to me, it's just that they're only one aspect of a whole piece and there's other things I respond more strongly to.

Anyway, I like these:

Mondays were made to fall, lost on a road he knew by heart
Like a book he read in his sleep, endlessly
Sometimes he hid in his radio watching others pull into their homes
While he was drifting

Light green to green, dark green, brown
Every life is falling down
Brown to black, it's coming back
Dies to be part of the ground
Seed to seedling, root to stem

Ransom paid the devil, he whispers pleasing words
Triumphant are the angels if they can get there first
Little secrets, tremors, turned to quake
The smallest oceans still get big, big waves

It's a love drawn nearer
Darkened days are spent in
A night bird is following you all the time

My will is crashing, synapses flashing slow
Days like frame by frame, where do they go?

[Kevin Davis]

A night bird is following you all the time

[epilogue]

It took me until Tom Waits to really appreciate music without lyrics. It's a recent thing for me. So, yeah, I'd say lyrics are very, VERY important to me.

[epilogue]

There is a similar sentiment in getaway. It is far more effective here.

Which might be why I haven't latched onto Getaway the way others have. I think the placement hurts it a bit. Feels redundant after already knowing Mind Your Manners. And MYM does it better.

[harmless]

There is a similar sentiment in getaway. It is far more effective here.

Which might be why I haven't latched onto Getaway the way others have. I think the placement hurts it a bit. Feels redundant after already knowing Mind Your Manners. And MYM does it better.

I actually think the sentiments are quite different. They're variations on the same thing, but they don't take exactly the same approach. The first three songs form quite a nicely defiant "trilogy" of rejections: "MYM" is an angry rejection of fundamentalism, the kind that leads to the death of innocents. "Getaway" is a much more snarky, humorous take on the subject of identity. It's a rewrite of "I Am Mine" from Riot Act, and rather than raging about actions that end to death, it turns on beliefs that erase individuality, identity and self-esteem. Then "My Father's Son" kind of builds on "MYM", being more specifically about a refusal to take on inherited negative beliefs and behaviours, particularly the violent tendencies of the father (or the Father, because the father here could be God). Thematically, there's a nice movement from these three rejections to the next three songs, which affirm the safety of family in a world of danger ("Sirens"), the uncontrollable nature of inspiration and creativity ("Lightning Bolt") and the proverbial 'call-to-arms' and the possibility of political and social change ("Infallible").

[epilogue]

Interesting. If Getaway is really a sort of I Am Mine rewrite, that would be further evidence for me. Because I think MYM and I Am Mine are both better songs. So whichever song one uses as a comparison, Getaway comes across as redundant to a degree.

Also, I find Riot Act much more uplifting and positive than many others do. Stip and I have gone back and forth about this for a while. It's interesting to me that you're calling Infallible a "call to arms." To me it's a much more -- not defeated, that's wrong -- resigned? song. There's an effort made but there's also an understanding that the effort probably won't be enough and if it isn't, we know who we can blame.

[harmless]

Interesting. If Getaway is really a sort of I Am Mine rewrite, that would be further evidence for me. Because I think MYM and I Am Mine are both better songs. So whichever song one uses as a comparison, Getaway comes across as redundant to a degree.

Also, I find Riot Act much more uplifting and positive than many others do. Stip and I have gone back and forth about this for a while. It's interesting to me that you're calling Infallible a "call to arms." To me it's a much more -- not defeated, that's wrong -- resigned? song. There's an effort made but there's also an understanding that the effort probably won't be enough and if it isn't, we know who we can blame.

Yeah, I agree on that. "Infallible" has a nice irony to it whereby it can be taken either way. There's definitely an "anti-anthem" quality to it which helps it escape the inspirational tag (in a similar way to something like LBC on Riot Act). I don't think MYM is a better song than Getaway, but I do agree that Getaway is lyrically a little redundant, given the fact that we already had "I Am Mine". I never loved that song as much as others did, though. I really liked it, and I really like Getaway. In both cases, the music outdoes the lyrics. And I think Ed's rehashed ideas so many times before that I don't really mind that he did it here.

[epilogue]

Interesting. If Getaway is really a sort of I Am Mine rewrite, that would be further evidence for me. Because I think MYM and I Am Mine are both better songs. So whichever song one uses as a comparison, Getaway comes across as redundant to a degree.

Also, I find Riot Act much more uplifting and positive than many others do. Stip and I have gone back and forth about this for a while. It's interesting to me that you're calling Infallible a "call to arms." To me it's a much more -- not defeated, that's wrong -- resigned? song. There's an effort made but there's also an understanding that the effort probably won't be enough and if it isn't, we know who we can blame.

Yeah, I agree on that. "Infallible" has a nice irony to it whereby it can be taken either way. There's definitely an "anti-anthem" quality to it which helps it escape the inspirational tag (in a similar way to something like LBC on Riot Act). I don't think MYM is a better song than Getaway, but I do agree that Getaway is lyrically a little redundant, given the fact that we already had "I Am Mine". I never loved that song as much as others did, though. I really liked it, and I really like Getaway. In both cases, the music outdoes the lyrics. And I think Ed's rehashed ideas so many times before that I don't really mind that he did it here.

YES! Exactly.

And, yeah, Getaway isn't a bad song by any stretch. I quite like it. But I'm your opposite in that I like I Am Mine and MYM better. But that doesn't make Getaway a bad song. And you're totally right about Ed's rehashed ideas. I don't want to make it sound like the rehash bothers me. It doesn't. I was just wondering the other day why I'm not latching onto Getaway like so many others (most of the people I talk to away from this board think Getaway is the clear-cut best track on the album). And I think the reason I'm not as into it (the same reason I'm not as into Swallowed Whole) is that it feels a bit "been-there-done-that-and better" in some ways. Mostly because of the lyrics and the themes.

But I'm a lyrics person first and foremost. I do also agree that the music to Getaway is better than the lyrics.

[harmless]

For me, this album is very much a "concept album", in the sense that it's much more than the sum of its (imperfect) parts. It all makes sense as a piece, and I've not been able to take songs out of the whole, even if I found them weaker.

[digster]

I feel like I definitely am a lyrics guy, so to speak, in that they carry weight for me, but it's always really hard to divorce the quality of the lyrics from the way in which the music supports the thought being presented (or vice versa). Case in point is the line in 'Rival'; "how's our father supposed to be told?" It's not necessarily a masterpiece on the page, but coupled with the melody, and the way the song builds to that moment, it's one of my favorite lines in a PJ song. There's a lot of PJ lyrics that work in that manner. I think overall, Ed and the rest of PJ are better songwriters in totality rather than lyricists.