Universal's Christopher Nolan's Penguin's Homer's TheOdyssey

[The Argonaut]

Is Burt messing with us?

[Mecca]

Burts real name is josh ferme

Doxd

Chud used to be decent at twitter. Not sure she still uses it though

[The Argonaut]

What do these people think Homer's Mediteraneanites looked like? If anything, this movie is, on net, whiter than it should be.

But more importantly who cares?

And to ask a movie that takes place in 1200BC to address 21st century racial politics because it doesn't cast only Celtic and Germanic actors playing ancient characters is insane.

Is Burt insane?

[Ello Sailor]

He's just regarded. Hates women because he's an unfuckable loser*. Hates minorities because he was born and raised in a Deliverance-type situation. Hates trans people because... actually, I have no idea. He's just a miserable, unintelligent trog.

*It's also possible that his mother was a cunt.

[Ello Sailor]

Anyway, let's ignore him and watch this shit. Go Wormy Nolan, go!

[tree_]

I think we've pretty much come to an agreement that almost all of the outrage is just rage-bait slop. If someone is genuinely outraged over this, that is... unhinged, at the very least.

[BurtReynolds]

What do these people think Homer's Mediteraneanites looked like? If anything, this movie is, on net, whiter than it should be.

But more importantly who cares?

And to ask a movie that takes place in 1200BC to address 21st century racial politics because it doesn't cast only Celtic and Germanic actors playing ancient characters is insane.

Is Burt insane?

They likely were pretty white historically -- probably whiter than they are now -- but in any case it's highly unlikely they were some multiracial people with trans people running around (though there were likely a whole lot of gays!).

If you're going for a heavily historically influenced story, even if it's fantasy, then it's immersion breaking and reeks of 21st century racial politics to ignore the appearance of the characters.

It's different with something like Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves or Masters of the Universe, where history isn't really that important and characters can be any race you want since it's just a silly adventure movie.

But you can't really get away with that with something like Lord of the Rings or Odyssey, without fucking it up. That's how you end up with dogshit like Rings of Power. And you sure as fuck can't get away with it with some historical fiction like Braveheart or something.

But I'm not sure how historical this is supposed to be. It seems kinda muddled to me. Like they're trying to have it both ways. It's probably another movie transposing the tired boomer Hollywood ethos on some other time and place. I'm beyond bored with that.

[wease]

Yes. Lord of the Rings must be historically accurate…

[BurtReynolds]

"Accurate" isn't the right word. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but LOTR would be worse if the characters were wearing Nikes. A given work presents a milieu in which the story takes place, and though that milieu can be broad depending on the story, going outside it makes the work shittier. That doesn't mean there can't be anachronisms, but it has to follow it's own rules and setting.

I think that people who do want historical accuracy in a movie that presents itself as historically accurate are not inherently horrible people. Personally I don't care about how period accurate the armor is as long as it fits the story being told, or is "emotionally true", but if other people get hung up on that, more power to them.

If you're story is obsessed with history and migrations of different peoples (like LOTR famously is), then presenting a world where races are magically and randomly distributed around the world like it's 2026 New York is fucking stupid and immersion breaking, and reeks of modern politics crudely bolted on by hacks.

[Mecca]

"Accurate" isn't the right word. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but LOTR would be worse if the characters were wearing Nikes. A given work presents a milieu in which the story takes place, and though that milieu can be broad depending on the story, going outside it makes the work shittier. That doesn't mean there can't be anachronisms, but it has to follow it's own rules and setting.

I think that people who do want historical accuracy in a movie that presents itself as historically accurate are not inherently horrible people. Personally I don't care about how period accurate the armor is as long as it fits the story being told, or is "emotionally true", but if other people get hung up on that, more power to them.

If you're story is obsessed with history and migrations of different peoples (like LOTR famously is), then presenting a world where races are magically and randomly distributed around the world like it's 2026 New York is fucking stupid and immersion breaking, and reeks of modern politics crudely bolted on by hacks.

*your

[Mecca]

I fucking got you

[The Argonaut]

It would be dumb and boring for Christopher Nolan in 2026 to try to tell the exact same story and play with the same ideas and convey the exact same message as Homer in 800 BC. What would even be the point?

Also, why were the people living in Bronze Age Greece, Turkey and North Africa so white? I haven't heard of that before

[BurtReynolds]

I fucking got you

Sonuvabitch

[BurtReynolds]

It would be dumb and boring for Christopher Nolan in 2026 to try to tell the exact same story and play with the same ideas and convey the exact same message as Homer in 800 BC. What would even be the point?

Also, why were the people living in Bronze Age Greece, Turkey and North Africa so white? I haven't heard of that before

Do we have a definitive film version of the Odyssey? I don't know, I think a faithful retelling in movie form would be kinda cool, actually. I'd also be cool with a wildly different take, as long as it didn't lie about it, and it didn't suck.

I've read some stuff that the original stories actually come from when northern invaders first entered Mycenea and Anatolia. They may not have even been seafaring. I wish I could remember where I read it.. the celts were still kicking around eastern and southern Europe and there are descriptions of redheads wreaking havok back in the day (as they do). That might be more related to the illiad than the Odyssey though. I'll have to dig it up.

[BurtReynolds]

I think Why Homer Matters talks about it. It's been awhile.

Adam Nicolson sees the Iliad and the Odyssey as the foundation myths of Greek - and our - consciousness, collapsing the passage of 4,000 years and making the distant past of the Mediterranean world as immediate to us as the events of our own time. Homer's poems occupy, as Adam Nicolson writes, "a third space" in the way we relate to the past: not as memory, which lasts no more than three generations, nor as the objective accounts of history, but as epic, invented after memory but before history, poetry that aims "to bind the wounds that time inflicts".

The Homeric poems are among the oldest stories we have, drawing on deep roots in the Eurasian steppes beyond the Black Sea. These poems, which ask the eternal questions about the individual and the community, honor and service, love and war, tell us how we became who we are.

[VinylGuy]

What do these people think Homer's Mediteraneanites looked like? If anything, this movie is, on net, whiter than it should be.

But more importantly who cares?

And to ask a movie that takes place in 1200BC to address 21st century racial politics because it doesn't cast only Celtic and Germanic actors playing ancient characters is insane.

Is Burt insane?

That giant monster looked kinda hispanic to me in the trailer and i found it offensive fuck you nolan!!

[Ello Sailor]

Hahahaha

[The Argonaut]

"Ancient Greeks were whiter than modern Greeks" sounds like some white supremacist insanity

[BurtReynolds]

Why? Like I said, the ancient greeks likely originated in the northern steppes who invaded the Mycenae area, and it's not like there wasn't white people around there at the time. After a few centuries of migrations, imperial hijinks and invasions, it stands to reason they would have become a bit darker over time. It's not like northern Mediterranean people looked indistinguishable from Egyptians or something.

[The Argonaut]

But why would anyone care about the race of the actors in this movie. It's not about race. It takes place before race as it is currently conceptualized even took place. Is it so hard for people to not focus exclusively on how dark somebody's skin is. Lupita Nyongo has dark skin, ok, I don't need to dwell on that. The guy who plays the shade of Achilles used to play female characters. Ok who gives a fuck. It's just boring. Aren't you bored of yourself thinking like this?