Song of the Moment: Sirens

[harmless]

I get your argument; you're saying that a mediocre song is a mediocre song, whatever is done to it. What I'm saying, though, is that my frustration is that these songs are mostly good; only one or two are mediocre. So yes, I can tell the songs underneath all the often-terrible production decisions are good songs, so I still like listening to them, but those production issues are so thickly applied all over the album that they stop the songs being great songs. Most of the songs deserved a Binaural or Riot Act-esque production. I'm not ignoring the musicianship to talk about production... who does that anyway? It's the musicianship and the performances that keeps me listening (although BoB's production decisions actually serve to drown the quality of the musicianship under wishy-washy bland sheen; the reason they might not have talked so much about production in the Sixties is that they still liked their musical instruments to sound natural, and they had far fewer gadgets to destroy the sound of those instruments, or the feel of the band as a whole).

This album is the aural equivalent of tinfoil.

[Mine]

I get your argument; you're saying that a mediocre song is a mediocre song, whatever is done to it. What I'm saying, though, is that my frustration is that these songs are mostly good; only one or two are mediocre. So yes, I can tell the songs underneath all the often-terrible production decisions are good songs, so I still like listening to them, but those production issues are so thickly applied all over the album that they stop the songs being great songs. Most of the songs deserved a Binaural or Riot Act-esque production. I'm not ignoring the musicianship to talk about production... who does that anyway? It's the musicianship and the performances that keeps me listening (although BoB's production decisions actually serve to drown the quality of the musicianship under wishy-washy bland sheen; the reason they might not have talked so much about production in the Sixties is that they still liked their musical instruments to sound natural, and they had far fewer gadgets to destroy the sound of those instruments, or the feel of the band as a whole).

This album is the aural equivalent of tinfoil.

The irony about the post Sony contract PJ production choices are that they only got more mayor label dictated like.

To give an example of my point. People often reduce debates about singers to range or specifically high notes and the difficulty of a vocal performance is essential equalled with how high the highest notes are as if there weren't any other qualities about the performances. I'm not even talking about how impassioned performances here. Pitch correction to help singers sing higher are part of this mentality as are the rest of the vocal editing trends. When you think what was there just before the "autotune era" it's basically singers who had "the high" note as their main strength. Take Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey for example they sold enormous amount of records and sounded cold as a robots belting out tragic love songs. A lot of the male Plant emulating rock singers of the 80's were also far more concentrated about the highest notes than anything else. I think the modern production choices are those trends taken to the extreme. And interestingly enough only a small minority of music listeners actually cares about it.

[harmless]

I get your argument; you're saying that a mediocre song is a mediocre song, whatever is done to it. What I'm saying, though, is that my frustration is that these songs are mostly good; only one or two are mediocre. So yes, I can tell the songs underneath all the often-terrible production decisions are good songs, so I still like listening to them, but those production issues are so thickly applied all over the album that they stop the songs being great songs. Most of the songs deserved a Binaural or Riot Act-esque production. I'm not ignoring the musicianship to talk about production... who does that anyway? It's the musicianship and the performances that keeps me listening (although BoB's production decisions actually serve to drown the quality of the musicianship under wishy-washy bland sheen; the reason they might not have talked so much about production in the Sixties is that they still liked their musical instruments to sound natural, and they had far fewer gadgets to destroy the sound of those instruments, or the feel of the band as a whole).

This album is the aural equivalent of tinfoil.

The irony about the post Sony contract PJ production choices are that they only got more mayor label dictated like.

To give an example of my point. People often reduce debates about singers to range or specifically high notes and the difficulty of a vocal performance is essential equalled with how high the highest notes are as if there weren't any other qualities about the performances. I'm not even talking about how impassioned performances here. Pitch correction to help singers sing higher are part of this mentality as are the rest of the vocal editing trends. When you think what was there just before the "autotune era" it's basically singers who had "the high" note as their main strength. Take Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey for example they sold enormous amount of records and sounded cold as a robots belting out tragic love songs. A lot of the male Plant emulating rock singers of the 80's were also far more concentrated about the highest notes than anything else. I think the modern production choices are those trends taken to the extreme. And interestingly enough only a small minority of music listeners actually cares about it.

To be honest, I'd have wanted all of the high-note parts of this album to be lower. The belted-out, anthemic chorus of "Infallible" is pretty hard to understand (it's OK but it could've been amazing with a lower octave included), and the "Sirens" chorus could've been lower as well. Some people (like stip) don't like Riot Act because it's nearly all sung in a lower register, but man, that would've improved most of these songs imo, and suited Ed's ageing voice as well. The only high part I really like a lot in this album is the last verse and outro of "Lightning Bolt". Ed needs to stop thinking that belting out choruses like Aerosmith is cool.

[EJ]

The fear hasn't gone away in you yet, Harmless? Jeez.

[harmless]

You keep reading negativity into my posts that isn't there, E.J. "Sirens" is my favourite song on the album. Relax.

[EJ]

You keep reading negativity into my posts that isn't there, E.J. "Sirens" is my favourite song on the album. Relax.

I'm not, sorry. Just bored.

[Mine]

I get your argument; you're saying that a mediocre song is a mediocre song, whatever is done to it. What I'm saying, though, is that my frustration is that these songs are mostly good; only one or two are mediocre. So yes, I can tell the songs underneath all the often-terrible production decisions are good songs, so I still like listening to them, but those production issues are so thickly applied all over the album that they stop the songs being great songs. Most of the songs deserved a Binaural or Riot Act-esque production. I'm not ignoring the musicianship to talk about production... who does that anyway? It's the musicianship and the performances that keeps me listening (although BoB's production decisions actually serve to drown the quality of the musicianship under wishy-washy bland sheen; the reason they might not have talked so much about production in the Sixties is that they still liked their musical instruments to sound natural, and they had far fewer gadgets to destroy the sound of those instruments, or the feel of the band as a whole).

This album is the aural equivalent of tinfoil.

The irony about the post Sony contract PJ production choices are that they only got more mayor label dictated like.

To give an example of my point. People often reduce debates about singers to range or specifically high notes and the difficulty of a vocal performance is essential equalled with how high the highest notes are as if there weren't any other qualities about the performances. I'm not even talking about how impassioned performances here. Pitch correction to help singers sing higher are part of this mentality as are the rest of the vocal editing trends. When you think what was there just before the "autotune era" it's basically singers who had "the high" note as their main strength. Take Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey for example they sold enormous amount of records and sounded cold as a robots belting out tragic love songs. A lot of the male Plant emulating rock singers of the 80's were also far more concentrated about the highest notes than anything else. I think the modern production choices are those trends taken to the extreme. And interestingly enough only a small minority of music listeners actually cares about it.

To be honest, I'd have wanted all of the high-note parts of this album to be lower. The belted-out, anthemic chorus of "Infallible" is pretty hard to understand (it's OK but it could've been amazing with a lower octave included), and the "Sirens" chorus could've been lower as well. Some people (like stip) don't like Riot Act because it's nearly all sung in a lower register, but man, that would've improved most of these songs imo, and suited Ed's ageing voice as well. The only high part I really like a lot in this album is the last verse and outro of "Lightning Bolt". Ed needs to stop thinking that belting out choruses like Aerosmith is cool.

That would be Stone i think. I mean he said in one of the interviews that generally higher key is better. That made me think about another thing. It seems like Ed is more prone to use the lowest part of his range on his solo records.

[Mine]

You keep reading negativity into my posts that isn't there, E.J. "Sirens" is my favourite song on the album. Relax.

It's the intro toms right? How can a drummer resist that.

[harmless]

You keep reading negativity into my posts that isn't there, E.J. "Sirens" is my favourite song on the album. Relax.

It's the intro toms right? How can a drummer resist that.

The out of time thing? They're not out of time on the studio version, just the video version. Or just the general rock ballad cliche of the blam-blam-blam tom intro? Funnily enough, although I've always known that this intro is the biggest cliche in the rock drumming book, I never cared because I like the song so much. But it's this kind of thing that makes me think that Matt could really be more imaginative sometimes. Still, as I say, I don't care. Great song. I'm just saying that we all could've liked it, given the sound of the EPK version. I wonder if that version will ever see the light of day.

[red calzolaio]

Is this song still around??

[stip]

I get your argument; you're saying that a mediocre song is a mediocre song, whatever is done to it. What I'm saying, though, is that my frustration is that these songs are mostly good; only one or two are mediocre. So yes, I can tell the songs underneath all the often-terrible production decisions are good songs, so I still like listening to them, but those production issues are so thickly applied all over the album that they stop the songs being great songs. Most of the songs deserved a Binaural or Riot Act-esque production. I'm not ignoring the musicianship to talk about production... who does that anyway? It's the musicianship and the performances that keeps me listening (although BoB's production decisions actually serve to drown the quality of the musicianship under wishy-washy bland sheen; the reason they might not have talked so much about production in the Sixties is that they still liked their musical instruments to sound natural, and they had far fewer gadgets to destroy the sound of those instruments, or the feel of the band as a whole).

This album is the aural equivalent of tinfoil.

The irony about the post Sony contract PJ production choices are that they only got more mayor label dictated like.

To give an example of my point. People often reduce debates about singers to range or specifically high notes and the difficulty of a vocal performance is essential equalled with how high the highest notes are as if there weren't any other qualities about the performances. I'm not even talking about how impassioned performances here. Pitch correction to help singers sing higher are part of this mentality as are the rest of the vocal editing trends. When you think what was there just before the "autotune era" it's basically singers who had "the high" note as their main strength. Take Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey for example they sold enormous amount of records and sounded cold as a robots belting out tragic love songs. A lot of the male Plant emulating rock singers of the 80's were also far more concentrated about the highest notes than anything else. I think the modern production choices are those trends taken to the extreme. And interestingly enough only a small minority of music listeners actually cares about it.

To be honest, I'd have wanted all of the high-note parts of this album to be lower. The belted-out, anthemic chorus of "Infallible" is pretty hard to understand (it's OK but it could've been amazing with a lower octave included), and the "Sirens" chorus could've been lower as well. Some people (like stip) don't like Riot Act because it's nearly all sung in a lower register, but man, that would've improved most of these songs imo, and suited Ed's ageing voice as well. The only high part I really like a lot in this album is the last verse and outro of "Lightning Bolt". Ed needs to stop thinking that belting out choruses like Aerosmith is cool.

I love Eddie's lower register. I was pleased to see it return on the into the wild soundtrack after its utter banishment from S/T. I think eddie sounds tired and defeated and that is what often turns me off (in some places it works great).

Infallible and getaway are the only two songs on this album that feel 'high'. I think he sounds amazing on stuff like yellow moon and mind your manners and pendulum.

[Mine]

You keep reading negativity into my posts that isn't there, E.J. "Sirens" is my favourite song on the album. Relax.

It's the intro toms right? How can a drummer resist that.

The out of time thing? They're not out of time on the studio version, just the video version. Or just the general rock ballad cliche of the blam-blam-blam tom intro? Funnily enough, although I've always known that this intro is the biggest cliche in the rock drumming book, I never cared because I like the song so much. But it's this kind of thing that makes me think that Matt could really be more imaginative sometimes. Still, as I say, I don't care. Great song. I'm just saying that we all could've liked it, given the sound of the EPK version. I wonder if that version will ever see the light of day.

blam blam blam tom. It's vintage cliché at this point. I wonder why the hell they had BO'B do the arrangement. I don't buy into any moneygrab argument because they're supposed to be able to write an arrangement even if a radio friendly one. I'm starting to wonder if they kind of lack the skills or good taste without external help at least to some degree. Still I'd take Ed telling them what to play instead of BO'B. About this i wonder how Ed's demo for Future Days sounds like.

[Mine]

I think eddie sounds tired and defeated and that is what often turns me off (in some places it works great).

Infallible and getaway are the only two songs on this album that feel 'high'. I think he sounds amazing on stuff like yellow moon and mind your manners and pendulum.

He does but i don't think if he sounded enthusiastic it would have worked for RA.

I can't stand how much of Ed's voice B'OB took out by pushing the high pass filter to sometimes it sounds like even further than 1khz. Who in their right mind would want to make Ed sound like he has no mid low resonance? He sounds metallic in Infallible in particular.

[harmless]

I think eddie sounds tired and defeated and that is what often turns me off (in some places it works great).

Infallible and getaway are the only two songs on this album that feel 'high'. I think he sounds amazing on stuff like yellow moon and mind your manners and pendulum.

He does but i don't think if he sounded enthusiastic it would have worked for RA.

I can't stand how much of Ed's voice B'OB took out by pushing the high pass filter to sometimes it sounds like even further than 1khz. Who in their right mind would want to make Ed sound like he has no mid low resonance? He sounds metallic in Infallible in particular.

Everything in Infallible sounds metallic. I listen to the guitars in the live version and it makes me wanna cry.

[Strat]

I think eddie sounds tired and defeated and that is what often turns me off (in some places it works great).

Infallible and getaway are the only two songs on this album that feel 'high'. I think he sounds amazing on stuff like yellow moon and mind your manners and pendulum.

He does but i don't think if he sounded enthusiastic it would have worked for RA.

I can't stand how much of Ed's voice B'OB took out by pushing the high pass filter to sometimes it sounds like even further than 1khz. Who in their right mind would want to make Ed sound like he has no mid low resonance? He sounds metallic in Infallible in particular.

Everything in Infallible sounds metallic. I listen to the guitars in the live version and it makes me wanna cry.

*ayayayayayayay

[harmless]

You keep reading negativity into my posts that isn't there, E.J. "Sirens" is my favourite song on the album. Relax.

It's the intro toms right? How can a drummer resist that.

The out of time thing? They're not out of time on the studio version, just the video version. Or just the general rock ballad cliche of the blam-blam-blam tom intro? Funnily enough, although I've always known that this intro is the biggest cliche in the rock drumming book, I never cared because I like the song so much. But it's this kind of thing that makes me think that Matt could really be more imaginative sometimes. Still, as I say, I don't care. Great song. I'm just saying that we all could've liked it, given the sound of the EPK version. I wonder if that version will ever see the light of day.

blam blam blam tom. It's vintage cliché at this point. I wonder why the hell they had BO'B do the arrangement. I don't buy into any moneygrab argument because they're supposed to be able to write an arrangement even if a radio friendly one. I'm starting to wonder if they kind of lack the skills or good taste without external help at least to some degree. Still I'd take Ed telling them what to play instead of BO'B. About this i wonder how Ed's demo for Future Days sounds like.

I think they know perfectly well how to create and arrange songs in the old way, they've shown that skill for years. But they're not skilled at successful, catchy and popular songs that appeal to a wide audience anymore. I think they enlisted BoBs help in the belief that he could help them create that sound. They're all appealing to more pop influences these days which are no less Pearl Jam but they are less interesting. And then Bob has a hand in adapting those songs and rearranging them for mass consumption. He's a scapegoat because all he's doing is helping them achieve their aims.

[Leatherhead]

Come on "Black Market Lightning Bolt!"

[harmless]

Come on "Black Market Lightning Bolt!"

Someone should do that and call it Black Belt.

[Mine]

I think they know perfectly well how to create and arrange songs in the old way, they've shown that skill for years. But they're not skilled at successful, catchy and popular songs that appeal to a wide audience anymore. I think they enlisted BoBs help in the belief that he could help them create that sound. They're all appealing to more pop influences these days which are no less Pearl Jam but they are less interesting. And then Bob has a hand in adapting those songs and rearranging them for mass consumption. He's a scapegoat because all he's doing is helping them achieve their aims.

What is the sound that appeals to a wide audience today? Seriously i can't think of anything that isn't electronic. I may be wrong but both LB and BS sound relatively dated in that regard. Not 80's dated but around 10-15 years ago dated.

[harmless]

I think they know perfectly well how to create and arrange songs in the old way, they've shown that skill for years. But they're not skilled at successful, catchy and popular songs that appeal to a wide audience anymore. I think they enlisted BoBs help in the belief that he could help them create that sound. They're all appealing to more pop influences these days which are no less Pearl Jam but they are less interesting. And then Bob has a hand in adapting those songs and rearranging them for mass consumption. He's a scapegoat because all he's doing is helping them achieve their aims.

What is the sound that appeals to a wide audience today? Seriously i can't think of anything that isn't electronic. I may be wrong but both LB and BS sound relatively dated in that regard. Not 80's dated but around 10-15 years ago dated.

There is no one sound is there? But honestly, a shiny, exact and polished, metallic sound with instant gratification but no character. That's contemporary. Does it sound like the 80s? Superficially I suppose, but there wasn't so much synthetic protools precision in those days. A song like Swallowed Whole could have been on an early REM album except that it has no roughness and imperfection in the recording. No character. So I'm not talking about a popular genre as much as a quality that renders these songs inoffensive to the general casual listener's ear.