BoB wanted a hit. easy answerspike wrote:what's the consensus on betterman's conceptual purpose within this album? is it just eddie tracing his adult problems back to a troubled youth?
I'm not sure I agree that the inclusion of a rather unremarkable art school sound collage with some voice-overs about sex and spankings makes the record feel less like posturing.McParadigm wrote:Also, if you gut stupidmop then Vitalogy sounds like an album about collapse where the closest the band came to actual collapse was an accordian joke and some cool guitar sounds tagged on to the end of Not for You. It kind of makes the whole record feel like it's all posture, or maybe just playing pretend.
I wouldn't complain if they ended every album with Immortality. I'd be fine with that. Yep.Kevin Davis wrote:I'm not sure I agree that the inclusion of a rather unremarkable art school sound collage with some voice-overs about sex and spankings makes the record feel less like posturing.McParadigm wrote:Also, if you gut stupidmop then Vitalogy sounds like an album about collapse where the closest the band came to actual collapse was an accordian joke and some cool guitar sounds tagged on to the end of Not for You. It kind of makes the whole record feel like it's all posture, or maybe just playing pretend.
End with "Immortality." Fuck the concept.
Lament wrote:I have no problem with people saying "I never listen to Stupid Mop," but that's an entirely different sentiment than "The album ends with Immortality." But then again, it's no sillier than "retracking" albums.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
rank these three things you just mentioned.Lament wrote:I have no problem with people saying "I never listen to Stupid Mop," but that's an entirely different sentiment than "The album ends with Immortality." But then again, it's no sillier than "retracking" albums.
I'm quoting this because I can't be bothered to go back a page. McP, the other little hints of 'collapse' on the album include the intro to Last Exit, and the discordant, ill-fitting intro to Betterman which sounds like an addition tagged on to make it less poppy. (Which makes it an interesting antithesis to the piano on Future Days.)Kevin Davis wrote:I'm not sure I agree that the inclusion of a rather unremarkable art school sound collage with some voice-overs about sex and spankings makes the record feel less like posturing.McParadigm wrote:Also, if you gut stupidmop then Vitalogy sounds like an album about collapse where the closest the band came to actual collapse was an accordian joke and some cool guitar sounds tagged on to the end of Not for You. It kind of makes the whole record feel like it's all posture, or maybe just playing pretend.
End with "Immortality." Fuck the concept.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
i love stupid mopBirds in Hell wrote:Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.
If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"
Malloy wrote:making this place inhospitable to posting is really the only move left.
Well, it's probably better than that Sleigh Bells song.Alex wrote:i love stupid mopBirds in Hell wrote:Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.
If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"
i knew i should have played it safe with soundgarden rarities and PJ side project tracks to appease your unsophisticated, bogan tastesBirds in Hell wrote:Well, it's probably better than that Sleigh Bells song.Alex wrote:i love stupid mopBirds in Hell wrote:Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.
If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"
Malloy wrote:making this place inhospitable to posting is really the only move left.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
It's more interesting. I don't particularly care for either track though.harmless wrote:Stupid Mop is definitely not as good as LTRP!
It was all downhill for it after that.stip wrote:I don't know how conscious it was, but there certainly seemed to be a recognizable sound at thus point. The screaming trees certainly move in the same direction, and second gen bands like bush and sponge are definitely apeing a discernible styleBurtReynolds wrote:Though we generally cringe at "Grunge", with Vitalogy, In Utero, Superunknown and AiC's general sound by 1994, I think you could argue that Grunge could be considered its own subgenre by that time.
Nirvana got sludgier, PJ got punkier and Soundgarden and Alice moved away from the metal. Originally coming from different backgrounds, they all seemed to move toward each other to some degree by 1994. I wonder how conscious it was.
Alex wrote:i knew i should have played it safe with soundgarden rarities and PJ side project tracks to appease your unsophisticated, bogan tastesBirds in Hell wrote:Well, it's probably better than that Sleigh Bells song.Alex wrote:i love stupid mopBirds in Hell wrote:Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.
If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"
+1harmless wrote:and the discordant, ill-fitting intro to Betterman which sounds like an addition tagged on to make it less poppy. (Which makes it an interesting antithesis to the piano on Future Days.)
if hadn't taken the plunge into PJ chat to harass you, i would still be living a life unaware of the existence of PJ fan portraitsBirds in Hell wrote:Alex wrote:i knew i should have played it safe with soundgarden rarities and PJ side project tracks to appease your unsophisticated, bogan tastesBirds in Hell wrote:Well, it's probably better than that Sleigh Bells song.Alex wrote:i love stupid mopBirds in Hell wrote:Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.
If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"
Malloy wrote:making this place inhospitable to posting is really the only move left.
I don't think anyone is legitimately "pretending" it doesn't exist--I think any comments to that effect are essentially just commentary on how the record holds up without it, which is fair and a pretty common way for people to process records. To my mind it's considerably less absurd than the idea that a track you never listen to "needs to be there" because the "flow" or the "concept" doesn't work when it's gone. None of that stuff matters if you disrupt said flow by never playing the track.Birds in Hell wrote:Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.
If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"