MLB

[philpritchard]

It should be hall of famers voting on it not writers.

There are just so many things wrong with the voting process. I mean... you have 14-15 legitimate candidates and you have people handing in blank ballots or voting for guys like Jacque Jones and Armando Benitez.

The whole steroid thing pisses me off, but even if you believe players who used PEDs should be in the Hall of Fame, I just can't understand how Mike Piazza (because he had acne on his back) and Jeff Bagwell (because he didn't hit homeruns in the minors) can be left off because of, at best, purely circumstantial evidence. Someone pretty much left Craig Biggio off because a friend of his knows a guy whose buddy worked in baseball and thinks he might have done steroids.

Craig Biggio is not going into the Hall of Fame this year because of the ten vote limit. That's sad.

[Chris_H_2]

It should be hall of famers voting on it not writers.

Yeah, but I don't want Mike holier-than-thou Schmidt who doesn't think anyone should get in if they aren't elected on the first ballot voting.

Part of the problem is the writers who don't even cover the sport voting.

[Coach]

As a kid, I was much more into the Hall of Fame, but now at this point, I don't even care enough about it to really offer a comment, other than "congrats" to those who got in.

[numbers]

It should be hall of famers voting on it not writers.

Yeah, but I don't want Mike holier-than-thou Schmidt who doesn't think anyone should get in if they aren't elected on the first ballot voting.

Part of the problem is the writers who don't even cover the sport voting.

Yeah, at least Schmidt had a leg to stand on when he makes tht argument though, as he is a hall of game player. It's better than having some alcoholic slob writer that hasn't even covered baseball in 15 years taking that stand.

Piazza is ridiculous, the guy is probably the greatest hitting catcher of all time and he's not even sniffing 75 pct. Then you've got frank Thomas going on first ballot, while people aren't voting for Edgar Martinez because he played the position that Thomas played for the majority of his career.

[MattA75]

Feel bad for Biggio. He'll most likely get in eventually, but he was a great fucking ballplayer, he should have been in before Frank Thomas.

I said it last year, I'll say it again this year...Craig Biggio is not a hall of fame player

[Norah]

It should be hall of famers voting on it not writers.

Absurd. Then it becomes friends voting in friends.

The process is flawed, and more people should be allowed to vote (Vin Scully? Jon Miller?) but letting these guys do it makes more sense than any other group. The players are too involved to be objective, and the fans are idiots as we see from All Star balloting.

All in all, the HoF is done pretty well for Baseball. Except for maybe Pete Rose, they pretty much get it right.

[philpritchard]

Feel bad for Biggio. He'll most likely get in eventually, but he was a great fucking ballplayer, he should have been in before Frank Thomas.

I said it last year, I'll say it again this year...Craig Biggio is not a hall of fame player

How so?

[Chris_H_2]

Yeah, at least Schmidt had a leg to stand on when he makes tht argument though, as he is a hall of game player.

But it doesn't matter who makes the argument -- it's a pretty ridiculous argument.

Guys like Mike Schmidt and Joe Morgan, who are pretty territorial about who gets in, are the reason why the veteran's committee never elects anyone (like Ron Santo, who didn't get elected until the year after he died).

[warehouse]

i think mike schmidt should pick HOFers by himself

[MattA75]

Feel bad for Biggio. He'll most likely get in eventually, but he was a great fucking ballplayer, he should have been in before Frank Thomas.

I said it last year, I'll say it again this year...Craig Biggio is not a hall of fame player

How so?

Well, what are the cases people make for him? The 3,000 hits. Took him 20 years and he had 200 hits in a season only once. He essentially had a great 3 year run (97-99) and was a good to very good player aside from that.

His career average is .281, which would be the lowest of any 3,000 hit member in the hall, the closest comparables being Yaz (and while a Red Sox fan, I think Yaz is slightly overrated, but still a better player than Biggio), Eddie Murray (who hit 500 HRs), Cal Ripken (if anything, he hurt himself statwise with the stupid streak), Robin Yount (if you think Biggio is a better player than Yount, please, get off the crack), Dave Winfield, and Ricky Henderson. The only guy on that list I would ever consider trading for Biggio straight up is Murray (some might not view it as a valid argument against him, but I think it creates a nice little debate).

His .234 postseason avg is piss poor, never won a title, or an MVP (and was never an honest contender either).

He was a good defensive player, but he wasn't a defensive stud. He did a lot of things well, some very well, but he wasn't really great at anything. He's Dustin Pedroia with a bit more speed .

And I won't even get into some of the intangible things that I think matters when talking about players who belong in the hall of fame, but most people here would probably roll their eyes at.

[MadTIGERmaN]

Feel bad for Biggio. He'll most likely get in eventually, but he was a great fucking ballplayer, he should have been in before Frank Thomas.

I said it last year, I'll say it again this year...Craig Biggio is not a hall of fame player

How so?

Well, what are the cases people make for him? The 3,000 hits. Took him 20 years and he had 200 hits in a season only once. He essentially had a great 3 year run (97-99) and was a good to very good player aside from that.

His career average is .281, which would be the lowest of any 3,000 hit member in the hall, the closest comparables being Yaz (and while a Red Sox fan, I think Yaz is slightly overrated, but still a better player than Biggio), Eddie Murray (who hit 500 HRs), Cal Ripken (if anything, he hurt himself statwise with the stupid streak), Robin Yount (if you think Biggio is a better player than Yount, please, get off the crack), Dave Winfield, and Ricky Henderson. The only guy on that list I would ever consider trading for Biggio straight up is Murray (some might not view it as a valid argument against him, but I think it creates a nice little debate).

His .234 postseason avg is piss poor, never won a title, or an MVP (and was never an honest contender either).

He was a good defensive player, but he wasn't a defensive stud. He did a lot of things well, some very well, but he wasn't really great at anything. He's Dustin Pedroia with a bit more speed .

And I won't even get into some of the intangible things that I think matters when talking about players who belong in the hall of fame, but most people here would probably roll their eyes at.

Its a semi good comparison, with one major flaw, the position. Offense has never been the prime factor in who plays 2nd base, so your better to compare Biggio to other 2nd baseman. And, in the years he played 2nd, there really wasnt any other 2nd baseman putting up his numbers. Thats what makes Cano so rare, ya just dont see those kinds of numbers from 2nd.

FThomas getting in before Edgar, Piazza, and Bagwell is a bit wonky... but at least its not the NFL hall of fame, where a guy can retire the all time leader in the key stat for his position, and not get in for years, until other WR's are becoming eligible. and then they finally vote Monk in just to finally get him off the ballot... or at least its not the RnR HoF LOL

[E.H. Ruddock]

I was really hoping to see Edgar get in the HOF, but alas he was a DH and he lost votes this year. Doesn't look good for him.

[MattA75]

Feel bad for Biggio. He'll most likely get in eventually, but he was a great fucking ballplayer, he should have been in before Frank Thomas.

I said it last year, I'll say it again this year...Craig Biggio is not a hall of fame player

How so?

Well, what are the cases people make for him? The 3,000 hits. Took him 20 years and he had 200 hits in a season only once. He essentially had a great 3 year run (97-99) and was a good to very good player aside from that.

His career average is .281, which would be the lowest of any 3,000 hit member in the hall, the closest comparables being Yaz (and while a Red Sox fan, I think Yaz is slightly overrated, but still a better player than Biggio), Eddie Murray (who hit 500 HRs), Cal Ripken (if anything, he hurt himself statwise with the stupid streak), Robin Yount (if you think Biggio is a better player than Yount, please, get off the crack), Dave Winfield, and Ricky Henderson. The only guy on that list I would ever consider trading for Biggio straight up is Murray (some might not view it as a valid argument against him, but I think it creates a nice little debate).

His .234 postseason avg is piss poor, never won a title, or an MVP (and was never an honest contender either).

He was a good defensive player, but he wasn't a defensive stud. He did a lot of things well, some very well, but he wasn't really great at anything. He's Dustin Pedroia with a bit more speed .

And I won't even get into some of the intangible things that I think matters when talking about players who belong in the hall of fame, but most people here would probably roll their eyes at.

Its a semi good comparison, with one major flaw, the position. Offense has never been the prime factor in who plays 2nd base, so your better to compare Biggio to other 2nd baseman. And, in the years he played 2nd, there really wasnt any other 2nd baseman putting up his numbers. Thats what makes Cano so rare, ya just dont see those kinds of numbers from 2nd.

FThomas getting in before Edgar, Piazza, and Bagwell is a bit wonky... but at least its not the NFL hall of fame, where a guy can retire the all time leader in the key stat for his position, and not get in for years, until other WR's are becoming eligible. and then they finally vote Monk in just to finally get him off the ballot... or at least its not the RnR HoF LOL

Jeff Kent put up better power numbers, and I wouldn't be rushing to put him into the HoF either

Robbie Alomar was every bit (and more in his prime) the all around player

other guys had good runs (Bret Boone, Jay Bell), but essentially it comes down to the same thing: we're rewarding him for longevity...if that's the case, if he can stay consistent and healthy, and play a while, I look forward to Pedroia (with his MVP and 2 WS titles and counting) getting his own undeserved day in Cooperstown

[Norah]

I was really hoping to see Edgar get in the HOF, but alas he was a DH and he lost votes this year. Doesn't look good for him.

Yeah I'd like to see him make it.

I'm glad Morris didn't get in but I'm not glad that Schilling lost ground. Morris is a borderline player that just doesn't quite make the cut. but Schilling is Morris with an edge and just gets over the hump for me.

[MattA75]

I was really hoping to see Edgar get in the HOF, but alas he was a DH and he lost votes this year. Doesn't look good for him.

Yeah I'd like to see him make it.

I'm glad Morris didn't get in but I'm not glad that Schilling lost ground. Morris is a borderline player that just doesn't quite make the cut. but Schilling is Morris with an edge and just gets over the hump for me.

Agreed on Edgar and Morris...and Schilling is better than Morris all around, and is one of the best postseason performers of all time

Edgar deserves to go in before Biggio but writers have a stick up their ass over the whole DH thing

[philpritchard]

Well, what are the cases people make for him? The 3,000 hits. Took him 20 years and he had 200 hits in a season only once. He essentially had a great 3 year run (97-99) and was a good to very good player aside from that.

For the entirety of the '90s, Biggio ranged from "very good" to "best player in baseball". Overall, he was somewhere in between.

His career average is .281, which would be the lowest of any 3,000 hit member in the hall, the closest comparables being Yaz (and while a Red Sox fan, I think Yaz is slightly overrated, but still a better player than Biggio), Eddie Murray (who hit 500 HRs), Cal Ripken (if anything, he hurt himself statwise with the stupid streak), Robin Yount (if you think Biggio is a better player than Yount, please, get off the crack), Dave Winfield, and Ricky Henderson. The only guy on that list I would ever consider trading for Biggio straight up is Murray (some might not view it as a valid argument against him, but I think it creates a nice little debate).

Actually, Yount and Biggio are great comps, and they both played multiple physically demanding, up-the-middle positions over their careers. I mean, they played almost the exact same number of games over the same number of years and Biggio had a higher career OBP, SLG, more doubles, more HR and way more SB. If you want advanced stats, Yount has the advantage by 1.2 WAR because of his defense, but Biggio rates as a slightly better hitter and a much better baserunner. Biggio's WAR puts him ahead of fellow second basemen Roberto Alomar and Ryne Sandberg.

You're either underrating Biggio or overrating Yount. Either way, the suggestion that Yount is clearly better is just ridiculous.

His .234 postseason avg is piss poor, never won a title, or an MVP (and was never an honest contender either).

A) You're going to put that much weight on less than 200 playoff PAs but ignore how good he was in more than 12,000 during the regular season?
B) The World Series is, and always will be, a team award... a team award that Robin Yount has never won.
C) I would say Biggio was an "honest contender" when he finished 4th in 1997 or 5th in 1998.

He was a good defensive player, but he wasn't a defensive stud. He did a lot of things well, some very well, but he wasn't really great at anything. He's Dustin Pedroia with a bit more speed .

That's a decent comparison, too. He's Dustin Pedroia with more speed and less defense. And as much as I can't stand Pedroia, he's probably on track for a Hall of Fame career at this point. So...

And I won't even get into some of the intangible things that I think matters when talking about players who belong in the hall of fame, but most people here would probably roll their eyes at.

I don't know what intangibles you could possibly be talking about, but did you ever see the guy's batting helmet? That's the definition of grit, and Pedroia would be lucky to measure up some day.

[Peeps]

i will preface this with i despise baseball, sportscenter in the summer is even more intolerable than normal.


but if you have 16 people leaving maddux off and then bitch about lebatard for giving away his vote then you have serious issues with your voting process

[philpritchard]

I was really hoping to see Edgar get in the HOF, but alas he was a DH and he lost votes this year. Doesn't look good for him.

Yeah I'd like to see him make it.

I'm glad Morris didn't get in but I'm not glad that Schilling lost ground. Morris is a borderline player that just doesn't quite make the cut. but Schilling is Morris with an edge and just gets over the hump for me.

I'm glad about Morris too, but Schilling was MILES ahead of him. Schilling and Mussina should be in, but I don't think it's going to get any easier for them next year when Johnson and Pedro and Smoltz join the ballot.

Edgar should be in too... DH or not, he was one of the best hitters of his generation and one of the best right-handed hitters of all time. The funny thing is, if he had played in the field and played the worst defense any player had ever played, voters would be falling all over themselves to vote him in. Put that DH next to his name, though, and he doesn't stand a chance.

[Norah]

I was really hoping to see Edgar get in the HOF, but alas he was a DH and he lost votes this year. Doesn't look good for him.

Yeah I'd like to see him make it.

I'm glad Morris didn't get in but I'm not glad that Schilling lost ground. Morris is a borderline player that just doesn't quite make the cut. but Schilling is Morris with an edge and just gets over the hump for me.

Agreed on Edgar and Morris...and Schilling is better than Morris all around, and is one of the best postseason performers of all time

Edgar deserves to go in before Biggio but writers have a stick up their ass over the whole DH thing

Schilling has the best K/BB ratio of the modern era. That's insane.

[Norah]

Mussina absolutely belongs in. He's closer to Tom Glavine than people think.