@SkitchP wrote:I absolutely adore what Dan Lebatard did. I hope someone has the balls to do it again next year... and his ballot was totally sound in comparison with any of the jerkoffs that didnt include Maddux.
I think everyone who likes baseball loves what he did. His ballot was 100% defensible. But no, let's make sure he doesn't get to vote so we can continue giving votes to the 16 guys who didn't vote for Maddux or the guy who voted for Jacque Jones or the guy who's openly admitted he want vote for anyone and is going to hand in a blank ballot to spite other writers.
The BBWAA is the worst.
His ballot ended up being legit, but the last thing I want is Hall of Fame voting going to deadspin readers.
numbers wrote:Did I hear this right? Maddux and Glavine are the first starting pitchers that debuted after 1972 to be inducted?
That's crazy, but it's not like there are a ton of great candidates from that time who have been left off. I've already said I think Schilling and Mussina should be in, and so should Clemens. Next year Pedro, Johnson and Smoltz join the ballot. It's weird that there would be a long stretch where none go in and that would be followed by a stretch of 2-3 years where there are so many great candidates, including some of the best pitchers of all time.
It sounds crazy when you hear it, but then you look into it, and it makes sense. Clemens is the only one currently on the ballot that I would put in.
numbers wrote:Did I hear this right? Maddux and Glavine are the first starting pitchers that debuted after 1972 to be inducted?
That's crazy, but it's not like there are a ton of great candidates from that time who have been left off. I've already said I think Schilling and Mussina should be in, and so should Clemens. Next year Pedro, Johnson and Smoltz join the ballot. It's weird that there would be a long stretch where none go in and that would be followed by a stretch of 2-3 years where there are so many great candidates, including some of the best pitchers of all time.
It sounds crazy when you hear it, but then you look into it, and it makes sense. Clemens is the only one currently on the ballot that I would put in.
numbers wrote:Did I hear this right? Maddux and Glavine are the first starting pitchers that debuted after 1972 to be inducted?
That's crazy, but it's not like there are a ton of great candidates from that time who have been left off. I've already said I think Schilling and Mussina should be in, and so should Clemens. Next year Pedro, Johnson and Smoltz join the ballot. It's weird that there would be a long stretch where none go in and that would be followed by a stretch of 2-3 years where there are so many great candidates, including some of the best pitchers of all time.
It sounds crazy when you hear it, but then you look into it, and it makes sense. Clemens is the only one currently on the ballot that I would put in.
No Mussina or Schilling?
Nah, I might come around on one of them eventually, but right now I'm a no. I think those are perfect examples of guys who were great but not Hall Of Fame great. Schilling to me, is what people think Jack Morris was, if that makes sense. He has low end borderline numbers and his biggest thing was what he did in the playoffs. I even feel like his playoff exploits are kind of overrated, he was great in 93, but I think he gets way more credit than he deserves for what he did in 01 and 04.
numbers wrote:Did I hear this right? Maddux and Glavine are the first starting pitchers that debuted after 1972 to be inducted?
That's crazy, but it's not like there are a ton of great candidates from that time who have been left off. I've already said I think Schilling and Mussina should be in, and so should Clemens. Next year Pedro, Johnson and Smoltz join the ballot. It's weird that there would be a long stretch where none go in and that would be followed by a stretch of 2-3 years where there are so many great candidates, including some of the best pitchers of all time.
It sounds crazy when you hear it, but then you look into it, and it makes sense. Clemens is the only one currently on the ballot that I would put in.
No Mussina or Schilling?
Nah, I might come around on one of them eventually, but right now I'm a no. I think those are perfect examples of guys who were great but not Hall Of Fame great. Schilling to me, is what people think Jack Morris was, if that makes sense. He has low end borderline numbers and his biggest thing was what he did in the playoffs. I even feel like his playoff exploits are kind of overrated, he was great in 93, but I think he gets way more credit than he deserves for what he did in 01 and 04.
Doesn't Schilling have the best K/BB ratio in MLB history? He's the opposite of Morris in some ways. For Morris it's WINS OMG BEST PITCHER OF THE 80's!! For Schilling its NOT ENOUGH WINS NOT AS GOOD AS MADDUX PEDRO OR RANDY JOHNSON
numbers wrote:Did I hear this right? Maddux and Glavine are the first starting pitchers that debuted after 1972 to be inducted?
That's crazy, but it's not like there are a ton of great candidates from that time who have been left off. I've already said I think Schilling and Mussina should be in, and so should Clemens. Next year Pedro, Johnson and Smoltz join the ballot. It's weird that there would be a long stretch where none go in and that would be followed by a stretch of 2-3 years where there are so many great candidates, including some of the best pitchers of all time.
It sounds crazy when you hear it, but then you look into it, and it makes sense. Clemens is the only one currently on the ballot that I would put in.
No Mussina or Schilling?
Nah, I might come around on one of them eventually, but right now I'm a no. I think those are perfect examples of guys who were great but not Hall Of Fame great. Schilling to me, is what people think Jack Morris was, if that makes sense. He has low end borderline numbers and his biggest thing was what he did in the playoffs. I even feel like his playoff exploits are kind of overrated, he was great in 93, but I think he gets way more credit than he deserves for what he did in 01 and 04.
Really? I don't normally put much stock into playoff stats, but in 2001 he had a 1.12 ERA in 6 starts. That alone blows Jack Morris out of the water.
Three time Cy Young runner up, three 300 K seasons and 3000 overall, best K/BB ratio ever... and the advanced stats are even more flattering (both bWAR and fWAR have him at over 80, while Morris is at 52 and 43.)
MadTIGERmaN wrote:In 180 more games, Molitor has Raines beat in
Hits, Doubles, Triples, Homers, RBI, RUNS, Average, slugging, onbase+slugging, total bases by 1000+
Raines has, SB, OBP, and grounded into fewer double plays?
theyre actually pretty close in a lot of those categories, and very similar players, Raines isnt going to hit 3rd for the 93 Blue Jays team.
You're right, he wouldn't have. That's because, coming back to the original point of the discussion, he would have hit leadoff.
Actually he wouldn't have because Henderson was on that team.
1 Greg? Maddux
2 Tom Glavine
3 Craig Biggio
4 Mike Piazza
5 Tim Raines
6 Roger Clemens
7 Barry Bonds
8 Alan Trammell
9 Edgar Martinez
This would have been my ballot, yeah, I left Thomas off. For me, he needed to age for a few more years, I'm actually pretty shocked he got in first ballot. Bagwell was really the only other guy I left off that I was really on the fence about.
edit: these arent in any particular order, I just looked at the list of who got votes and went down the line.
MadTIGERmaN wrote:In 180 more games, Molitor has Raines beat in
Hits, Doubles, Triples, Homers, RBI, RUNS, Average, slugging, onbase+slugging, total bases by 1000+
Raines has, SB, OBP, and grounded into fewer double plays?
theyre actually pretty close in a lot of those categories, and very similar players, Raines isnt going to hit 3rd for the 93 Blue Jays team.
You're right, he wouldn't have. That's because, coming back to the original point of the discussion, he would have hit leadoff.
Actually he wouldn't have because Henderson was on that team.
that lineup is INSANE!
I think thats part of the reason you dont hear Molitor discussed much in the "great leadoff hitters" conversations. His last 6/7 years he hit mostly 3rd... and put up even better numbers. His single season hit high was in his first year with the Twins, and he had some of his highest single season averages. Raines is definitely one of the greatest leadoff hitters of all time... Molitor however is one of the best hitters of all time period. (oh if only hed have been healthy in 81, 84-87)
