Eddie solo songs

[Birds in Hell]

re: Crown of Thorns

That's why (and this isn't really a fair critique to make), the fact that it gets played relatively often lately is a bit of a drag. It seems too special, in a way.

I think it's an entirely fair critique.

I do miss the days when it seemed as though the band treated themselves and their work with a kind of reverence. Part of that was the playing of a song like Crown of Thorns was in itself a special event reserved for nights when the band really felt it was justified. It's disappointing in some respects to see how frequently it appears these days, particularly since they added the Chloe Dancer intro (which Ed really struggles with).

Which, of course, is a view shared by everyone in the audience. I know my reaction the few times I've heard it was 'man, I wish they would have saved this song for some other show with other people because playing it for me here, now, really cheapens it.'

I think tailoring of their shows to what they imagine the audience wants to hear (admittedly successfully, I'd imagine, in many cases) is certainly one of the issues at the heart of the band's current live performance woes.

It's like that scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, you know? "You can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work."

[Birds in Hell]

It looks like they played this about once every 5 shows this last tour, so it's not like this became alive, either.

That still seems like a considerable increase on how frequently it was played in the past, particularly in 2000 and 2003 (twice on each tour).

[stip]

Oh that's definitely true. They also played it about as often in 06 as today, but that was a longer tour

[stip]

re: Crown of Thorns

That's why (and this isn't really a fair critique to make), the fact that it gets played relatively often lately is a bit of a drag. It seems too special, in a way.

I think it's an entirely fair critique.

I do miss the days when it seemed as though the band treated themselves and their work with a kind of reverence. Part of that was the playing of a song like Crown of Thorns was in itself a special event reserved for nights when the band really felt it was justified. It's disappointing in some respects to see how frequently it appears these days, particularly since they added the Chloe Dancer intro (which Ed really struggles with).

Which, of course, is a view shared by everyone in the audience. I know my reaction the few times I've heard it was 'man, I wish they would have saved this song for some other show with other people because playing it for me here, now, really cheapens it.'

I think tailoring of their shows to what they imagine the audience wants to hear (admittedly successfully, I'd imagine, in many cases) is certainly one of the issues at the heart of the band's current live performance woes.

It's like that scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, you know? "You can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work."

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly the same thing.

[stip]

I also try whenever possible to withhold affection from my wife and ignore my students questions because, you know, it's how they'll respect me.

[Birds in Hell]

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly the same thing.

[PryTo]

I imagine this info is out there somewhere, but I'm equally certain some of you good folks will know this. Has PJ covered any MLB songs besides Chloe/Crown? Post 'em if you got 'em.

(I'm in the please-stop-ruining-those-songs category with Chloe/Crown. I'm also in the less Chloe/Crown is more camp. Just. Stop. They should have done it the one time at the ten-year show and left it at that.)

[Strat]

I imagine this info is out there somewhere, but I'm equally certain some of you good folks will know this. Has PJ covered any MLB songs besides Chloe/Crown? Post 'em if you got 'em.

(I'm in the please-stop-ruining-those-songs category with Chloe/Crown. I'm also in the less Chloe/Crown is more camp. Just. Stop. They should have done it the one time at the ten-year show and left it at that.)

They did stardog champion at pj20 alpine show with Cornell.

[Birds in Hell]

re: Crown of Thorns

That's why (and this isn't really a fair critique to make), the fact that it gets played relatively often lately is a bit of a drag. It seems too special, in a way.

I think it's an entirely fair critique.

I do miss the days when it seemed as though the band treated themselves and their work with a kind of reverence. Part of that was the playing of a song like Crown of Thorns was in itself a special event reserved for nights when the band really felt it was justified. It's disappointing in some respects to see how frequently it appears these days, particularly since they added the Chloe Dancer intro (which Ed really struggles with).

Which, of course, is a view shared by everyone in the audience. I know my reaction the few times I've heard it was 'man, I wish they would have saved this song for some other show with other people because playing it for me here, now, really cheapens it.'

I think tailoring of their shows to what they imagine the audience wants to hear (admittedly successfully, I'd imagine, in many cases) is certainly one of the issues at the heart of the band's current live performance woes.

It's like that scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, you know? "You can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work."

Seriously, tho.

As a large commercial rock band, there's inevitably going to be some straddling of the somewhat-blurred line between being primarily focused on music to its own end and considering what the audience expects (a crass music/entertainment distinction, if you will).

On recent tours, it feels as though the band's pendulum (ho!) has swung more towards the latter than before to the detriment of their musical development (both in terms of their live performances and their songwriting efforts).

[PryTo]

They did stardog champion at pj20 alpine show with Cornell.

Thanks, forgot about that. Doesn't count for me, since it's Ed-less. Would love to hear Ed sing this. 15 years ago.

[stip]

re: Crown of Thorns

That's why (and this isn't really a fair critique to make), the fact that it gets played relatively often lately is a bit of a drag. It seems too special, in a way.

I think it's an entirely fair critique.

I do miss the days when it seemed as though the band treated themselves and their work with a kind of reverence. Part of that was the playing of a song like Crown of Thorns was in itself a special event reserved for nights when the band really felt it was justified. It's disappointing in some respects to see how frequently it appears these days, particularly since they added the Chloe Dancer intro (which Ed really struggles with).

Which, of course, is a view shared by everyone in the audience. I know my reaction the few times I've heard it was 'man, I wish they would have saved this song for some other show with other people because playing it for me here, now, really cheapens it.'

I think tailoring of their shows to what they imagine the audience wants to hear (admittedly successfully, I'd imagine, in many cases) is certainly one of the issues at the heart of the band's current live performance woes.

It's like that scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, you know? "You can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work."

Seriously, tho.

As a large commercial rock band, there's inevitably going to be some straddling of the somewhat-blurred line between being primarily focused on music to its own end and considering what the audience expects (a crass music/entertainment distinction, if you will).

On recent tours, it feels as though the band's pendulum (ho!) has swung more towards the latter than before to the detriment of their musical development (both in terms of their live performances and their songwriting efforts).

I disagree regarding the song writing. L-bolt, for instance, features a pretty wide array of styles, including a few songs that go into fairly new territory for the band. I agree that the desire to write songs that are more accessible than some previous albums features heavily into the songwriting, but accessibility has nothing to do with the quality of the writing--just the type of writing.


As far as the live stuff goes, and controlling for the shorter tours and varied set lists, maybe the biggest change isn't that they play to what the audience expects (I mean it's not like they play GH cookie cutter setlists ever--even at festival shows--and it is hard to argue that expanding your reach to include your entire catalog is stifling), but that they are more bandleaders than a band, if that makes sense. They are focused less on the music and more on the reaction the music is going to elicit. Maybe that's what you meant. It's just a different approach. I suppose you can argue that it isn't as good, and clearly the bootlegs (which will fail to capture that) will suffer as a result. But I don't see it as something that is inherently problematic. After all, it makes sense to go hear live music for the experience of hearing it live and being there--and pearl jam's show are intensely interactive in that regard. It's what makes them so great. You get to go to a huge show with your favorite band and you are a part of the event, rather than a witness to it. You can listen to music at home.

[Norah]

They did stardog champion at pj20 alpine show with Cornell.

Thanks, forgot about that. Doesn't count for me, since it's Ed-less. Would love to hear Ed sing this. 15 years ago.

So Mankind and Don't Gimme No Lip aren't Pearl Jam songs now?

[PryTo]

They did stardog champion at pj20 alpine show with Cornell.

Thanks, forgot about that. Doesn't count for me, since it's Ed-less. Would love to hear Ed sing this. 15 years ago.

So Mankind and Don't Gimme No Lip aren't Pearl Jam songs now?

If Stone sings them, yes. If Chris Cornell sings them, nope. (Love me some Mankind -- voted for it in the MM poll, knowing it would lose.)

[Birds in Hell]

...they are more bandleaders than a band, if that makes sense. They are focused less on the music and more on the reaction the music is going to elicit. Maybe that's what you meant. It's just a different approach.

Yes, that's pretty much exactly it.

...pearl jam's show are intensely interactive in that regard. It's what makes them so great. You get to go to a huge show with your favorite band and you are a part of the event, rather than a witness to it.

I have zero interest in something like that.

You can listen to music at home.

I don't even know where to go with this.

[malice]

I don't even know where to go with this.

the most spenno reaction to stip of all time post

[Kevin Davis]

They are focused less on the music and more on the reaction the music is going to elicit.

That's a nice way of putting it. But basically what you're saying is that they've reprised their role in culture from musicians to dancing bears pandering to a room full of people for cheap, momentary applause--and for whatever reason, you've assumed the fallacy, whether you meant to or not, that this end is somehow necessarily separate from technically competent musicianship. If getting a crowd full of drunken buffoons to participate in a few "hey-oh"s and then subsequently enthralling said drunken buffoons by hoisting your bottle of booze into the air to indicate that you too are so cool that you would dare take on the audacious and highly unprecedented task of consuming alcohol at a rock concert is, to you, a talent on par with the level of musicianship we know this band is capable of attaining, then I envy the ease with which you are entertained. I personally think that a group of musicians that comes out onstage unprepared to perform their music--and what's worse, when those musicians have in the past been arrogant enough to remark that they don't feel they need to really rehearse anymore, despite the fact that the recorded evidence clearly reveals otherwise--is both insulting to their audience and just flat out lazy. The argument that that laziness is irrelevant simply because they throw a bitchin' party is a big fucking excuse, and not something I relate to on even the most microscopic level.

You get to go to a huge show with your favorite band and you are a part of the event, rather than a witness to it.

There was an episode of "Married...With Children" once where Kelly Bundy was explaining to Bud that she had a beauty salon appointment where--for only $500--she was going to be getting a treatment that made it appear as though she hadn't had any work done to her at all. This kind of reminds me of that. You've essentially convinced yourself that you're getting a good deal by paying $80 per ticket to hear yourself sing the first verse of "Better Man." You can have your magic moment, I guess; I still go to a show hoping that the band will do most if not all of the work.

[BurtReynolds]

[digster]

I understand stip's assessment, but my issue springs from this notion that they had to make a choice between those two options (being capable players or leading the brigade of fans). There was always, even on their best tours, a degree of irreverence in their style and approach; the band has never been one to stick to the script and been unwilling to engage the fans in the venue. I guess I disagree with this notion that they made a choice and morphed into their current incarnation; I think they've always had that seat-of-the-pants, what is going to happen next connection with their fans. They just let the other part of the equation succumb to atrophy. PJ has absolutely proved in the past that you can have your cake and eat it too when it comes to the balancing act between a prepared, intense musical performance and an improvisatory back-and-forth with whatever crowd they happen to be in front of on a given night; to me, at their best, there were few, if any bands better at finding that line.

[McParadigm]

This is bringing me right back to

It probably takes an incredible amount of booze to soften the gut-piercing stab that comes with looking out at an audience so awash in low expectation and easy forgiveness that any attempt to reach beyond adequate is lost on them.

[stip]

They are focused less on the music and more on the reaction the music is going to elicit.

That's a nice way of putting it. But basically what you're saying is that they've reprised their role in culture from musicians to dancing bears pandering to a room full of people for cheap, momentary applause--and for whatever reason, you've assumed the fallacy, whether you meant to or not, that this end is somehow necessarily separate from technically competent musicianship. If getting a crowd full of drunken buffoons to participate in a few "hey-oh"s and then subsequently enthralling said drunken buffoons by hoisting your bottle of booze into the air to indicate that you too are so cool that you would dare take on the audacious and highly unprecedented task of consuming alcohol at a rock concert is, to you, a talent on par with the level of musicianship we know this band is capable of attaining, then I envy the ease with which you are entertained. I personally think that a group of musicians that comes out onstage unprepared to perform their music--and what's worse, when those musicians have in the past been arrogant enough to remark that they don't feel they need to really rehearse anymore, despite the fact that the recorded evidence clearly reveals otherwise--is both insulting to their audience and just flat out lazy. The argument that that laziness is irrelevant simply because they throw a bitchin' party is a big fucking excuse, and not something I relate to on even the most microscopic level.

You get to go to a huge show with your favorite band and you are a part of the event, rather than a witness to it.

There was an episode of "Married...With Children" once where Kelly Bundy was explaining to Bud that she had a beauty salon appointment where--for only $500--she was going to be getting a treatment that made it appear as though she hadn't had any work done to her at all. This kind of reminds me of that. You've essentially convinced yourself that you're getting a good deal by paying $80 per ticket to hear yourself sing the first verse of "Better Man." You can have your magic moment, I guess; I still go to a show hoping that the band will do most if not all of the work.

Ah, so Kevin Davis is that 10c member who spends the whole show sitting down and glaring at everyone around him for not having the good taste to show up to an arena and sit absolutely still so you can hear the music.