Match BN: Foldback vs. Off He Goes

[Strat]

He's basically ruminating on what a horrible friend he is. Im not sure that can be narcissistic. Shit ton of insecurity though.

[Lament]

I don't think I can agree that there's a difference between saying "It's like his thoughts are" versus "his thoughts are." The way it's presented (to me at least) they're both saying "He (Ed) is a really deep guy," without any qualification. There's no hint of "it's like he's a really deep guy for this reason that isn't 'cause he's deep too.'"

[Lament]

He's basically ruminating on what a horrible friend he is. Im not sure that can be narcissistic. Shit ton of insecurity though.

For a song about a guy ruminating on what a horrible friend he is, most of the song sure seems to be about how burdened and troubled he is, and how he's not a good friend because he's just got too many bigger things on his mind.

[epilogue]

But, again, like Burt mentioned, I don't think the idea is supposed to be, "I'm a/He is a really deep guy." I don't think that's what "his thoughts are too big for his size means."

[BurtReynolds]

He's basically ruminating on what a horrible friend he is. Im not sure that can be narcissistic. Shit ton of insecurity though.

For a song about a guy ruminating on what a horrible friend he is, most of the song sure seems to be about how burdened and troubled he is, and how he's not a good friend because he's just got too many bigger things on his mind.

"bigger things" here isn't absolute. Its relative to his size. Therefore, the ... oh goddamnit I'm not doing this...

hint: multiply by "x" and carry the 'Y'.

[Lament]

Do you honestly think Ed (especially circa 1996) is intending it to mean, "I can't handle these thoughts because I'm too small for them, not because these thoughts are out of the realm of an ordinary human's ability to deal with" as opposed to "I'm burdened by thoughts that are beyond the realm of an ordinary human?" Fair enough if you do, but there is no fucking way I will ever believe that.

[epilogue]

Also, it's tricky in that he's trying to write about himself (apparently) from the point of view of an old friend. Ed's exploring a possible version of himself based on imagined (empathetic?) thoughts of feelings. It isn't how he sees himself, but how he imagines someone else might see him. And some of it is pretty grim. So, yeah, I'm with Strat on this.

[BurtReynolds]

Do you honestly think Ed (especially circa 1996) is intending it to mean, "I can't handle these thoughts because I'm too small for them, not because these thoughts are out of the realm of an ordinary human's ability to deal with" as opposed to "I'm burdened by thoughts that are beyond the realm of an ordinary human?" Fair enough if you do, but there is no fucking way I will ever believe that.

uh...yeah?

edit: I mean, sure, he's a melodramatic asshole, but still he's as much self deprecating as he is full of himself. weird guy. Made him a great singer though.

[digster]

I think it could probably be said that it's the latter, that he would consider the issues he's dealing with to be out of the ordinary. That being said, I could see how one would make the argument that his issues in the mid-90s were somewhat out of the ordinary.

[epilogue]

Do you honestly think Ed (especially circa 1996) is intending it to mean, "I can't handle these thoughts because I'm too small for them, not because these thoughts are out of the realm of an ordinary human's ability to deal with" as opposed to "I'm burdened by thoughts that are beyond the realm of an ordinary human?" Fair enough if you do, but there is no fucking way I will ever believe that.

This seems a tad unfair.

[epilogue]

I think it could probably be said that it's the latter, that he would consider the issues he's dealing with to be out of the ordinary. That being said, I could see how one would make the argument that his issues in the mid-90s were somewhat out of the ordinary.

[Lament]

Do you honestly think Ed (especially circa 1996) is intending it to mean, "I can't handle these thoughts because I'm too small for them, not because these thoughts are out of the realm of an ordinary human's ability to deal with" as opposed to "I'm burdened by thoughts that are beyond the realm of an ordinary human?" Fair enough if you do, but there is no fucking way I will ever believe that.

uh...yeah?

Then why does he feel the need to quantify at the end by reinforcing the idea that "he's still strong"? That's the sign of someone who believes the main character is struggling with something beyond on the realm of the ordinary, not the opposite.

[Lament]

Not to mention that the only thing that has changed and made him troubled are his circumstances ("the surrounding bullshit"), not anything about him.

[epilogue]

Do you honestly think Ed (especially circa 1996) is intending it to mean, "I can't handle these thoughts because I'm too small for them, not because these thoughts are out of the realm of an ordinary human's ability to deal with" as opposed to "I'm burdened by thoughts that are beyond the realm of an ordinary human?" Fair enough if you do, but there is no fucking way I will ever believe that.

uh...yeah?

Then why does he feel the need to quantify at the end by reinforcing the idea that "he's still strong"? That's the sign of someone who believes the main character is struggling with something beyond on the realm of the ordinary, not the opposite.

How are we defining ordinary? Can one not be strong while overcoming the ordinary? That doesn't make sense to me.

[BurtReynolds]

Do you honestly think Ed (especially circa 1996) is intending it to mean, "I can't handle these thoughts because I'm too small for them, not because these thoughts are out of the realm of an ordinary human's ability to deal with" as opposed to "I'm burdened by thoughts that are beyond the realm of an ordinary human?" Fair enough if you do, but there is no fucking way I will ever believe that.

uh...yeah?

Then why does he feel the need to quantify at the end by reinforcing the idea that "he's still strong"? That's the sign of someone who believes the main character is struggling with something beyond on the realm of the ordinary, not the opposite.

nah.

I also think people take the "its about me" stuff too literally. I think a lot of his lyrics aren't that concrete. They might start out about one thing, blend into another, and end up about the first thing again (Alive comes to mind). I'm sure he takes some similar ideas and mashes them together. Sometimes its just whatever sounds best.

In any case, Off He Goes, and those lyrics in particular, don't sound conceited to me.

[epilogue]

Not to mention that the only thing that has changed and made him troubled are his circumstances ("the surrounding bullshit"), not anything about him.

But that's circumstantial. Of course things have changed. I think that line has more to do with the friend and perception. Just like when my best friend moved back home from Germany and the army. We met to have drinks and it felt like old times, we smiled and laughed, but of course things had changed. But it was like he'd ever left.

[epilogue]

I also think people take the "its about me" stuff too literally. I think a lot of his lyrics aren't that concrete. They might start out about one thing, blend into another, and end up about the first thing again (Alive comes to mind). I'm sure he takes some similar ideas and mashes them together. Sometimes its just whatever sounds best.

In any case, Off He Goes, and those lyrics in particular, don't sound conceited to me.

That's a good point. I'm right there with you. But to each their own.

[Lament]

How are we defining ordinary? Can one not be strong while overcoming the ordinary? That doesn't make sense to me.

Do you think Ed is attributing his failure for his size to match the size of his thoughts as being a result of the thoughts being unusually big or him being unusually small? And given the things we know about Ed, if you believe it to be the latter, wouldn't that be a weakness, as opposed to a strength? Strength would suggest he's dealing with something beyond him, not failing to manage to deal with something that he theoretically should be able to deal with.

[epilogue]

How are we defining ordinary? Can one not be strong while overcoming the ordinary? That doesn't make sense to me.

Do you think Ed is attributing his failure for his size to match the size of his thoughts as being a result of the thoughts being unusually big or him being unusually small? And given the things we know about Ed, if you believe it to be the latter, wouldn't that be a weakness, as opposed to a strength? Strength would suggest he's dealing with something beyond him, not failing to manage to deal with something that he theoretically should be able to deal with.

I think fame and stalkers and people driving into your house and your face on every magazine and everyone wanting a piece of you and an anti-trust lawsuit is pretty heavy shit. I can't even begin to imagine what that is. Regardless of size, that's a lot to take on, for anyone, but especially for someone who doesn't really want it. So, I would say battling that and coming out the other side smiling is indicative of strength. But I don't think it's all that literal, especially regarding his size.

There's strength in overcoming a particularly shitty day. If I'm willing to appoint strength to that person, I can certainly appoint it to someone in Ed's shoes in 1996. But that's just me. I've never met the man.

[BurtReynolds]

He's a big story song guy. Even if this song is, at its core, about himself or how he thinks others see him, he writes about characters. He gives them their own traits the same way an author might. Its a song about a character based on an aspect of himself, not a literal song about himself. To me, the character sounds like a troubled, isolated and lost soul (a common theme on No Code), not someone who is just full of himself.