Pono Music

[William Bloke]

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

a great, detailed article on why 24/192 FLACs are a waste of time

My brain hurt just skimming over the graphics in that article.

[Jorge]

You must have a fragile brain

[William Bloke]

Yesterday more than today. But it sure ain't no bear trap, I tell ya.

[McParadigm]

Got my Pono. Got my Beats by Dre. Got my late era Pearl Jam record. Hifi for life yo.

[Mine]

One thing that makes me sceptical is that they often mention Aretha Franklin's Respect as the track people were blown away at listening to in Neil's car. That track doesn't have the best recording quality going on for it and I've heard quite a few versions between various masters of the mono or stereo mixes. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to be impressed by the audio quality of that particular recording.

[darth_vedder]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people. Couldn't Neil just ask Bruce, Tom, Flea, and Eddie to pitch in like 200k a piece? I'm sure they got the money. Why did the richies need money from the common folk to get this "kick started"? Don't they already have millions?

[Heathen]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people.

Because they can

[darth_vedder]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people.

Because they can

Fuckin' rich people

[Mine]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people. Couldn't Neil just ask Bruce, Tom, Flea, and Eddie to pitch in like 200k a piece? I'm sure they got the money. Why did the richies need money from the common folk to get this "kick started"? Don't they already have millions?

They probably did. This was probably more promotion than funding.

[darth_vedder]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people. Couldn't Neil just ask Bruce, Tom, Flea, and Eddie to pitch in like 200k a piece? I'm sure they got the money. Why did the richies need money from the common folk to get this "kick started"? Don't they already have millions?

They probably did. This was probably more promotion than funding.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm just being an ass, I don't really care one way or the other where they get their money from. Once the 2nd generation player comes out, I may check it out. I'm curious to hear No Code, Binaural, and Riot Act on this thing.

[Mine]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people. Couldn't Neil just ask Bruce, Tom, Flea, and Eddie to pitch in like 200k a piece? I'm sure they got the money. Why did the richies need money from the common folk to get this "kick started"? Don't they already have millions?

They probably did. This was probably more promotion than funding.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm just being an ass, I don't really care one way or the other where they get their money from. Once the 2nd generation player comes out, I may check it out. I'm curious to hear No Code, Binaural, and Riot Act on this thing.

It may not make much of a difference, if you already have a decent setup. Again i think Pono's success will depend entirely on the quality of the music they will be selling. The player itself isn't doing anything to the music. It's just a portable player with the "right" specifications on paper but it doesn't offer anything new.

[darth_vedder]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people. Couldn't Neil just ask Bruce, Tom, Flea, and Eddie to pitch in like 200k a piece? I'm sure they got the money. Why did the richies need money from the common folk to get this "kick started"? Don't they already have millions?

They probably did. This was probably more promotion than funding.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm just being an ass, I don't really care one way or the other where they get their money from. Once the 2nd generation player comes out, I may check it out. I'm curious to hear No Code, Binaural, and Riot Act on this thing.

It may not make much of a difference, if you already have a decent setup. Again i think Pono's success will depend entirely on the quality of the music they will be selling. The player itself isn't doing anything to the music. It's just a portable player with the "right" specifications on paper but it doesn't offer anything new.

I don't really have a set up...just mediocre computer speakers, and an older ipod nano with mediocre earbuds (Sennhesier).

One of these days I'll buy a real receiver (maybe like a Harmon Kardon) and some real speakers. Probably will have to wait till my kiddo is out of daycare though.

[gems and rhinestones]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people. Couldn't Neil just ask Bruce, Tom, Flea, and Eddie to pitch in like 200k a piece? I'm sure they got the money. Why did the richies need money from the common folk to get this "kick started"? Don't they already have millions?

They probably did. This was probably more promotion than funding.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm just being an ass, I don't really care one way or the other where they get their money from. Once the 2nd generation player comes out, I may check it out. I'm curious to hear No Code, Binaural, and Riot Act on this thing.

Yeah it's mostly come from people purchasing Pono's and posters etc anyway not actual donations from regular people. Although I'm sure they have gotten at least a few thousand on donations alone.

[Norah]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people. Couldn't Neil just ask Bruce, Tom, Flea, and Eddie to pitch in like 200k a piece? I'm sure they got the money. Why did the richies need money from the common folk to get this "kick started"? Don't they already have millions?

They probably did. This was probably more promotion than funding.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm just being an ass, I don't really care one way or the other where they get their money from. Once the 2nd generation player comes out, I may check it out. I'm curious to hear No Code, Binaural, and Riot Act on this thing.

It may not make much of a difference, if you already have a decent setup. Again i think Pono's success will depend entirely on the quality of the music they will be selling. The player itself isn't doing anything to the music. It's just a portable player with the "right" specifications on paper but it doesn't offer anything new.

Pretty much this. The player is just a well built portable digital music player that is FLAC compatible. I don't see a reason to disagree with the article Jorge posted, 24/192 files are probably pointless overall. But as someone who does not own an actual portable music player, and relies on a smartphone which handles lossless music VERY poorly, this is something I'd be interested in. Just like my stereo sounds better than my laptop, the hardware on this should sound better than my phone. And paired with my HD-598s I bet is's a very nice listening experience indeed.

I too, will probably wait until a second generation.

[AndySlash]

I'm intrigued, but why did they need backing from regular people. Couldn't Neil just ask Bruce, Tom, Flea, and Eddie to pitch in like 200k a piece? I'm sure they got the money. Why did the richies need money from the common folk to get this "kick started"? Don't they already have millions?

They probably did. This was probably more promotion than funding.

oh, it's totally marketing driven. the people out there just going 'why do they need this money???!!! fuck these guys!!!' apparently don't understand that.

[Stickman]

currently sitting at $2.5M. I regret not jumping on the PJ series when there were 483 still available.

[Norah]

So I've been reading up on the differences between 44/16 CD quality and higher resolution formats, using some links from Jorge's posted article as a jumping off point.

http://mixonline.com/recording/mixing/a ... index.html

There's an article that goes into a double blind study that concludes that well qualified listeners really can't tell the difference between CD quality and higher resolution files.

However, the same magazine published an article a couple weeks ago that interviews some mastering engineers:

High-resolution audio is a hot topic these days, for professionals and consumers. What is it?

Lurssen: We’ve brought it down to MP3, so now a CD is hi-res. [Laughter]

Romanowski: The Recording Academy is looking at hi-res as anything 24 /48 and above; that’s been established for film. And then we’re looking at Ultra Hi Res. But it’s just as important that we determine where it came from. You can say that you have an original analog master but you don’t know that it wasn’t an EQ’d safety copy. Or sixth generation. We have to be vigilant as an industry about labeling if we expect the consumer to buy in. Integrity is important. Upsampling is not hi-res. There is truth in advertising, and that’s the only way we can expect consumers to embrace it.

Palmaccio: I would say that hi-res has to be 24 bits. Bits are important. This goes back to the early ’90s when we were just trying to break out of 16 bits. Then 18-bit converters came out, then 20 and 24. Mastering is a game of inches. We improve things in small increments. To go from 16 to 24 is a massive jump. A 48dB difference. The noise floor goes away. So hi-res has to be at least 24 bits. And on sample rate we need to work at 96k. To my ear it’s significantly better. I’m sure we’ll go higher, too. Bigger is better.

Lurssen: Once you get to a sample rate of 192, you’re starting to get closer to what the human brain needs to hear. Double that to 384, and 32-bit—the more samples per second, the higher the ultraharmonic frequencies go. Then the brain doesn’t have to go through the stress of interpolation. When people talk about high resolution, they are first talking about a reduction. But from a marketing standpoint they need to establish a benchmark number. We have to pay attention to that.

Mendelson: The flip side of that is that sometimes there is such focus on the numbers of hi-res that we miss the meaning of it, and the “sound quality” of it. To me, hi-res is the closest representation of the original source.

Lurssen: I like Andrew’s definition. As close to the source as possible. Ultimately, the most success we can offer a client, or a recording, is to make it sound like we were never there. There’s color and flavor to what we do, but it is more felt than heard. There’s definitely vibe, there’s attitude and a style. But there should never be a veil between the recording and the listener. When we offer something to an artist that they can sell with confidence, it should sound like it always existed. It is an art of balance, a balance of the tonal frequency spectrum and an understanding of how consumers will hear it.

I would like to ask Palmaccio and Lurssen about tjeir (bolded) responses and what they thinks of the study done and the science behind it from the article Jorge posted.

[zeb]

http://www.tonedeaf.com.au/features/opi ... lution.htm

More grist.

[Strat]

http://www.tonedeaf.com.au/features/opinion/392844/why-we-shouldnt-get-on-board-neil-youngs-pono-music-revolution.htm

More grist.

Well, yadda yadda but this is what Neil is fighting against:

"MP3s are another matter all together, and these are a lossy format where information is thrown away to make the file smaller. MP3 files of less than 320KB/S are usually easily audibly inferior to the original CD version. We do not recommend MP3 coding for anything except non-critical work where space must be saved"

He is trying to make those become obsolete and not the standard for which we listen to music. For which the general public doesnt hear music.

[Jorge]

Neil is fighting against senility.