Post-Riot Act Moneygrab

[stip]

oh man, I'd buy so much fucking merchandise from a story like that

[Lament]

[96583UP]

oh man, I'd buy so much fucking merchandise from a story like that

hahaha now where talkin'

seriously though

how the hell is there not a PJ turntable yet

there's a fucking Dr. Scholes PJ-themed shoe insert and there's not a PJ turntable

million dollar idea

maybe RMers can pool our money and get some korean company to make a Pear Jam turntable

we'll fill the market void and title it just differently enough to avoid getting sued for trademark infringement

then we'll all make it rich and can hire Ed to play our corporate party in Cabo

[bodysnatcher]

shouldn't this thread be called Post-Mother Love Bone Moneygrab?

[Norah]

Listening to music is definitively a subjective experience.

Really, anytime you say something like "you can't judge music," you make yourself sound like a huge tool. It's that kind of egalitarianism that really defines who has anything worthwhile to say about art and who doesn't, because if you can't separate a Mozart sonata from a coffehouse open mic, you really shouldn't be talking about music at all. Same goes for poetry, same goes for visual art, same goes for cinematography. The objective elements are what allow the emotion to take body in the work of art. You can't appreciate a good scene in a movie if it isn't shot in an artistic manner, and you can't really feel the emotion in a piece of music if the musician writes about wanting to "put a little fixin'" on a mistake. And I take this personally as well. I'm trying to be a writer. I'm working very hard at trying to be a writer, and for you to come in here and imply that there's no objective level on which I can improve my writing and that nothing separates me from people who aren't studying literature and who aren't writing short stories and who aren't making a concerted effort to find their own voices and to write in an authentic and fresh manner? That basically discredits the entirety of what I'm trying to do. Fuck you.

I love this post every time I see it.

[bodysnatcher]

it's a nice, spicy bowl of salsa that i wanna dip my chip in

[bodysnatcher]

sorry, pot brownie kicked in a bit ago

[Norah]

I can't handle eating pot anymore.

[bodysnatcher]

i love it. depends how it's made / what it is though

[Norah]

I feel like I'm at a complete loss of control when I eat it.

[bodysnatcher]

I feel like I'm at a complete loss of control when I eat it.

and that's BAD??

no, i think i know wht you mean

[Norah]

no, i think i know wht you mean

yeah, you know what i mean

[Leatherhead]

Listening to music is definitively a subjective experience.

Really, anytime you say something like "you can't judge music," you make yourself sound like a huge tool. It's that kind of egalitarianism that really defines who has anything worthwhile to say about art and who doesn't, because if you can't separate a Mozart sonata from a coffehouse open mic, you really shouldn't be talking about music at all. Same goes for poetry, same goes for visual art, same goes for cinematography. The objective elements are what allow the emotion to take body in the work of art. You can't appreciate a good scene in a movie if it isn't shot in an artistic manner, and you can't really feel the emotion in a piece of music if the musician writes about wanting to "put a little fixin'" on a mistake. And I take this personally as well. I'm trying to be a writer. I'm working very hard at trying to be a writer, and for you to come in here and imply that there's no objective level on which I can improve my writing and that nothing separates me from people who aren't studying literature and who aren't writing short stories and who aren't making a concerted effort to find their own voices and to write in an authentic and fresh manner? That basically discredits the entirety of what I'm trying to do. Fuck you.

Now, see, I have a hard time with this. It's not that I don't think you can judge art, say what's good, what's bad, etc., I think one definitely can, but I have some problems. Here, you mention emotion a lot and yet, emotion seems to be a fairly easy pot to stir. For instance, I have never been brought to tears by a song, and yet I know I've been brought to tears by stupid movies that are just really good at tugging at one's "heart strings." I remember specifically watching the movie "Marley and Me" and shedding a few tears when the dog died, but I am sure "Marley and Me" is not a movie I actually like, If so, I'd want to watch it again, and I don't, and I also remember not enjoying anything when I first saw, only that I shed a few tears when the dog died. Now, this movie seemed to be able to elicit a strong emotional response from me, but I would not say it's a good piece of art. Furthermore, stupid made for TV movies on networks like Lifetime seem to be able to do the same thing, I've never had this happen to me from a lifetime movie, but I've witnessed it several times, my Mother, sister, girlfriend, I have all seen crying during stupid made for TV movies. Surely these are not good pieces of art, only good at eliciting a strong emotional response. This to me seems like manipulation of some kind. I know I have had strong intimate connections with music, so I am sure it is not a lack of interaction with the art that I have experienced that has kept from tears. I have been on what almost seems like a different plane while listening to a song or album, in the perfect mood, where the music I'm hearing is just fuckin' awesome, there's nothing else going on besides the music making sweet sweet love to my music receptors, yet still no tears, no strong emotional response, just a great great appreciation for the sounds I'm hearing.
So, what I'm trying to say, I think, is that while I do believe one can judge art, and I think art should be judged to avoid "art" becoming meaningless and empty (by succumbing to the mentality that anything can be art), I have a hard time actually defining the parameters of judging. Emotional response is not an adequate criterion by which to judge art. So while I believe one can definitely judge art, I am not sure how one is to go about doing it. But I am sure that emotional response is not the way we should judge art, or at least not the best way to judge, or perhaps just not the only way.

[Jorge]

I remember specifically watching the movie "Marley and Me" and shedding a few tears when the dog died

Dude... spoilers.

[Leatherhead]

I remember specifically watching the movie "Marley and Me" and shedding a few tears when the dog died

Dude... spoilers.

Don't watch it anyway, it sucks.

[Jorge]

I remember specifically watching the movie "Marley and Me" and shedding a few tears when the dog died

Dude... spoilers.

Don't watch it anyway, it sucks.

Watching movies about dying dogs is definitively a subjective experience

[BurtReynolds]

I remember specifically watching the movie "Marley and Me" and shedding a few tears when the dog died

Dude... spoilers.

Don't watch it anyway, it sucks.

Watching movies about dying dogs is definitively a subjective experience

I love dogs, but that stupid dog deserved to die.

[stip]

People conflate their subjective experience of something with the objective qualities that go into it, which is probably where the problem lies. I don't enjoy sleight of hand as a song. I think it's boring. I don't feel any real emotional connection to it. But I think it's a well constructed song. I've been genuinely moved by sirens and future days despite the fact that they are clearly less impressive pieces of craft

[Lament]

If the dog in Marley & Me lived and Future Days died instead the world would be a better place.

[stip]

I also thnk it would be helpful if there was some place that compiled the judgements of professional evaluators of art and gave us a place to evaluate the critical reception of that art, which would be helpful for distinguishing between the aforementioned distinction between subjective response and objective merits (or at least the subjective critical response to those objective merits)

If only such a place existed...