Not worthy of a thread News

[Alex]

if life in the intersection is a life free of the consumption of hilarious satire, then count me out

[harmless]

if life in the intersection is a life free of the consumption of hilarious satire, then count me out

It's a life free of the assumption that 'hilarious' satire about Native Americans must be delivered by highly-paid white guys who are more likely to commit casual racism against another group in the process. If you're counting yourself out, OK.

Just in case I'm called inconsistent, not once has any abled guy been able to tell me a 'hilarious' joke about disability on TV.

[malice]

i don't know if this is harmless or not, but regardless, it was an interesting article.

Yes, it's harmless. The article is interesting, sure, I'm just tired of seeing the validity of Twitter questioned. And it really has nothing to do with #CancelColbert, that's just the latest in a long line of stuff being denigrated in order to undermine Twitter as a venue for activism. Which is great for those who can access other venues.

that article didn't come across to me as trying to undermine twitter as a venue for anything. it came across to me as pointing out that twitter, like all new forms of technology is just as capable of fostering misunderstanding and misguided activism as anything else in the media realm, and with constrictions on length of tweets etc, is likely more capable of of being capitalized on as a form of activism that requires no further involvement in what the purpose of a specific type of activism is being used for etc, thus the comment about fact checking etc.

the other night on colbert, he noted (among many other things) that one of the people who had signed on to the #CancelColbert deal was a Fox News contributor (a spectacularly radical right wing news channel if you're unfamiliar with it) named Michelle Malkin - who is of Asian heritage, and also happened to write a book in 2004 in favor of Japanese internment camps being established in the US during WWII...

to me, it feels like twitter can be just as easily used to manipulate activism as benefit the goals of that activism, and because people are by and large too unmotivated to research causes or motivations behind things, twitter users can easily sway opinions in non-beneficial ways for a cause...

[malice]

if life in the intersection is a life free of the consumption of hilarious satire, then count me out

It's a life free of the assumption that 'hilarious' satire about Native Americans must be delivered by highly-paid white guys who are more likely to commit casual racism against another group in the process. If you're counting yourself out, OK.

Just in case I'm called inconsistent, not once has any abled guy been able to tell me a 'hilarious' joke about disability on TV.

but Colbert is a pretty extreme liberal, friend.

[harmless]

if life in the intersection is a life free of the consumption of hilarious satire, then count me out

It's a life free of the assumption that 'hilarious' satire about Native Americans must be delivered by highly-paid white guys who are more likely to commit casual racism against another group in the process. If you're counting yourself out, OK.

Just in case I'm called inconsistent, not once has any abled guy been able to tell me a 'hilarious' joke about disability on TV.

but Colbert is a pretty extreme liberal, friend.

I don't care about his political stance. 'Liberal' doesn't undo white, just as it doesn't undo able-bodied if a person makes an ignorant joke about me. It's merely an excuse: "I'm liberal, I'm your friend."

[harmless]

I just think that if people think #CancelColbert dwarfed the campaign to change the name of the Redskins, they need to not also dwarf it by defending Colbert's right to speak for and on behalf of people with whom he doesn't share a history.

[malice]

if life in the intersection is a life free of the consumption of hilarious satire, then count me out

It's a life free of the assumption that 'hilarious' satire about Native Americans must be delivered by highly-paid white guys who are more likely to commit casual racism against another group in the process. If you're counting yourself out, OK.

Just in case I'm called inconsistent, not once has any abled guy been able to tell me a 'hilarious' joke about disability on TV.

but Colbert is a pretty extreme liberal, friend.

I don't care about his political stance. 'Liberal' doesn't undo white, just as it doesn't undo able-bodied if a person makes an ignorant joke about me. It's merely an excuse: "I'm liberal, I'm your friend."

ok. except his intention is to point out the same thing. that's satire. he's pretty f*cking brilliant at it too...
i apologize if you're unfamiliar with it, but i've been watching this guy for as long as he's been on and he's more condemning of white guys being white etc than just about anyone i've ever seen in my life.
that may not be worth much but it's worthy of mention to me anyway.

someone noted on twitter the other day that lenny bruce would not do well in the age of twitter. unfortunately, i tend to agree, which is sad, because what colbert does is largely in the same arena as lenny bruce and there's just not enough of these guys left in the mainstream anymore.

[malice]

I just think that if people think #CancelColbert dwarfed the campaign to change the name of the Redskins, they need to not also dwarf it by defending Colbert's right to speak for and on behalf of people with whom he doesn't share a history.

so no american should talk about native american rights or how rich white guys can seemingly get away with continuing to call their teams racist names as long as they set up some dumb foundation? that seems silly to me.

also, i tend to agree with the general consensus (which colbert also mentioned last night) that while the media was having a field day with the #cancelcolbert thing, he didn't see shit about the washington redskins...

so. yay twitter, i guess?

[harmless]

I know what satire is. I am familiar with Colbert's intention. I'm also familiar with how easily people can write offensive stuff thinking it's satire. Ultimately you can tell the effectiveness of the satire by how well it addresses the issues it seeks to, and which audience finds it edifying and helpful. If the audience defending a joke concerning Native Americans and Asian people is mostly white... oops.

[harmless]

I just think that if people think #CancelColbert dwarfed the campaign to change the name of the Redskins, they need to not also dwarf it by defending Colbert's right to speak for and on behalf of people with whom he doesn't share a history.

so no american should talk about native american rights or how rich white guys can seemingly get away with continuing to call their teams racist names as long as they set up some dumb foundation? that seems silly to me.

also, i tend to agree with the general consensus (which colbert also mentioned last night) that while the media was having a field day with the #cancelcolbert thing, he didn't see shit about the washington redskins...

so. yay twitter, i guess?

Of course it seems silly to you. Everything I say seems silly to most people, I'm used to it. I would tell Colbert that raising awareness for the issue can be done without assuming that 'satire' from the POV of a white person is the best way. There's nothing better (and I mean this) than satire that comes from the people group affected, because one of the things satire seeks to do is increase the visibility of minority voices. White people telling jokes about other races is no more helpful than abled people telling jokes about disability in this regard.

[Alex]

april fool's jokes don't typically last for two days, but i guess there are exceptions to every rule

[harmless]

But hey, as soon as the word 'intersection' was brought up I knew this would be LOL harmless again so never mind, enjoy the conversation. I was reading this forum while I was away, and I don't know how long it took everyone to get off the issue of harmless banging on about intersectionality. 'Come back harmless!' is not the message I received.

[doug rr]

I think harmless took a shot at dwarfs

[malice]

I know what satire is. I am familiar with Colbert's intention. I'm also familiar with how easily people can write offensive stuff thinking it's satire. Ultimately you can tell the effectiveness of the satire by how well it addresses the issues it seeks to, and which audience finds it edifying and helpful. If the audience defending a joke concerning Native Americans and Asian people is mostly white... oops.

the initial tweet wasn't colbert though... and unless it was only for april fools (I haven't even looked so who knows) colbert blew up that account.

I'm not sure exactly what you think anyone in america (sorry, I mean the USA specifically) should be talking about as far as native americans, or asian americans, or disabled americans, or italian americans or anyone american.

there was a scene in X the autobiography of Malcolm X where some white girl went up to Mr. X and said she supported his cause and wanted to participate etc - what could she do?
his response was something along the lines of: nothing.

because she was a white girl basically. the thing is, even malcolm x eventually had what he termed as an epiphany about people in general, and regretted not involving people of any color, religious denomination etc in his movement for black america's equality.

I believe it was to do with his understanding that in order for change to be effective and lasting, it must be carried out by all people not just segments of the society.

seems to me this is similar if not in its grandness (or lack of) than at least in its desire to affect that change in how we live together.

[harmless]

I know what satire is. I am familiar with Colbert's intention. I'm also familiar with how easily people can write offensive stuff thinking it's satire. Ultimately you can tell the effectiveness of the satire by how well it addresses the issues it seeks to, and which audience finds it edifying and helpful. If the audience defending a joke concerning Native Americans and Asian people is mostly white... oops.

the initial tweet wasn't colbert though... and unless it was only for april fools (I haven't even looked so who knows) colbert blew up that account.

I'm not sure exactly what you think anyone in america (sorry, I mean the USA specifically) should be talking about as far as native americans, or asian americans, or disabled americans, or italian americans or anyone american.

there was a scene in X the autobiography of Malcolm X where some white girl went up to Mr. X and said she supported his cause and wanted to participate etc - what could she do?
his response was something along the lines of: nothing.

because she was a white girl basically. the thing is, even malcolm x eventually had what he termed as an epiphany about people in general, and regretted not involving people of any color, religious denomination etc in his movement for black america's equality.

I believe it was to do with his understanding that in order for change to be effective and lasting, it must be carried out by all people not just segments of the society.

seems to me this is similar if not in its grandness (or lack of) than at least in its desire to affect that change in how we live together.

I'm not going to tell you the answers to your questions. But I will ask: what are the Native American or Asian opinions on this Colbert thing? Those are the opinions I'll prioritise.

[malice]

and do me a favor and don't tell me i find you silly. there's a big difference between a specific stance not being interpreted as completely logical and an entire person not being that way. if you can't take me saying an idea doesn't sound logical to me, of all people who participate in N&D then I guess I can't talk about this with you anymore. I value your friendship and don't enjoy being misinterpreted. love, mary

[harmless]

If I asked a black person what I could do tell help their cause, and they said 'Stop talking and listen', I would. In fact, they do, and I do. Because that's what I tell people who want to help with disability rights but constantly fight me on my opinions. If you don't want to help me with my causes by listening to what I need, help someone else.

[Jorge]

I'm not going to tell you the answers to your questions. But I will ask: what are the Native American or Asian opinions on this Colbert thing? Those are the opinions I'll prioritise.

If Twitter is to be believed, Asians are split right down the middle. A lot of support for Colbert. You can trawl back through Suey Park's timeline to find where she calls them all idiots.

[harmless]

and do me a favor and don't tell me i find you silly. there's a big difference between a specific stance not being interpreted as completely logical and an entire person not being that way.

No. No there isn't. I have my opinions because of my experience as a social minority that the majority wishes they could speak for. The able-bodied majority thinks they can tell hilarious jokes about my condition and pretend they're helping, but when I say they're not, the opinion is labelled 'illogical', 'irrational', 'reactive', etc. etc. If you're in a minority, every single complaint you make is trumped by the majority backlash against it. I'm used to it.

[harmless]

The backlash against #CancelColbert happened because it was started by one Asian woman, rather than millions of white people who are part of a TV fandom with a fuckton of financial and credibility backing.