stip wrote:There is a lot if stuff worth criticizing the 10c over. The merchandise isn't one of them. Shit, it may be the only thing not worth criticizing.
This is what you've done for years. You take one minor issue and defend it to then defend everything. It doesn't work. We all see through it. But you can keep doing it.
stip wrote:There is a lot if stuff worth criticizing the 10c over. The merchandise isn't one of them. Shit, it may be the only thing not worth criticizing.
This is what you've done for years. You take one minor issue and defend it to then defend everything. It doesn't work. We all see through it. But you can keep doing it.
P.S. I'm happy you still love Pearl Jam.
I just agreed with 2 of your 3 points about 10c and your general conclusion that it's a crummy organization. I'm not sure I get your point. I'm not sure you read mine
stip wrote:There is a lot if stuff worth criticizing the 10c over. The merchandise isn't one of them. Shit, it may be the only thing not worth criticizing.
This is what you've done for years. You take one minor issue and defend it to then defend everything. It doesn't work. We all see through it. But you can keep doing it.
P.S. I'm happy you still love Pearl Jam.
I just agreed with 2 of your 3 points about 10c and your general conclusion that it's a crummy organization. I'm not sure I get your point. I'm not sure you read mine
I wrote three large points. One point was about 10 club and it had 3 points inside it. You picked apart one of those about merchandise that I also could give a shit about. I still think it takes advantage of fans, especially how the poster situation has evolved over the years. Yay.
stip wrote:There is a lot if stuff worth criticizing the 10c over. The merchandise isn't one of them. Shit, it may be the only thing not worth criticizing.
I know I posted this already but I do think complaints about the band's truckloads of merchandise are legitimate.
Birds in Hell wrote:
stip wrote:The question I'd ask is 'should pearl jam stop making harmless and inessential things that a narrow set of intense fans really loves to have?' If your answer is yes, what are you basing that off of besides 'I don't like it.'?
I think playing in a band is always essentially a creative endeavour; it's impossible to separate Pearl Jam as a business entity from Pearl Jam as musicians.
Everything that comes out with the Pearl Jam name attached is, on some level, a reflection on them and their art, even moreso now as the buck always stops with them and not a third party (Sony, etc). T-shirts, figurines, dog collars, Faithfull Ale, Facebook posts: all of this is inseparable from Pearl Jam as a creative entity.
If people think those things are unappealing or poorly-chosen, that can't help but reflect on the band. Not to the same degree as awful music, of course, but I can understand the temptation to lump them together if you discern a general downwards trend.
stip wrote:It's a non-essential product made for hobbyists. I'd be bothered if they stuck a new song on it to make people feel like they HAD to buy it.
Honestly, I'd find no issue with a limited-run 7" of songs completely unavailable elsewhere. That would actually be pretty cool.
Last edited by Birds in Hell on Sat April 12, 2014 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
given2trade wrote:stip said: "pearl jams music is never anti capitalism either."
that's probably the greatest line you've written...today?
Okay, what lyrics/songs do you feel like pointing to that you couldn't also find in a bob Dylan song, which is what that post was responding to?
Oh I can't. But Pearl Jam and EV have definitely been anti-capitalist in the past. To the fullest extent. Soon Forget is really all we need there but also about a dozen lines from EV in concerts. He hates rich people who make money in the stock market unless he's best friends w/ them now.
Nobody on this board represents my views of Pearl Jam today like "Birds In Hell" or I think his old name is "Thenno" or some shit like that does. I don't even see the need to post because he has been nailing it for years.
It's fun though, and that's why I still do it. Just not that often. And I'm a bit drunk.
stip wrote:There is a lot if stuff worth criticizing the 10c over. The merchandise isn't one of them. Shit, it may be the only thing not worth criticizing.
This is what you've done for years. You take one minor issue and defend it to then defend everything. It doesn't work. We all see through it. But you can keep doing it.
P.S. I'm happy you still love Pearl Jam.
I just agreed with 2 of your 3 points about 10c and your general conclusion that it's a crummy organization. I'm not sure I get your point. I'm not sure you read mine
I wrote three large points. One point was about 10 club and it had 3 points inside it. You picked apart one of those about merchandise that I also could give a shit about. I still think it takes advantage of fans, especially how the poster situation has evolved over the years. Yay.
Well I think the other things you wrote just aren't worth my time (and my time isn't very valuable to begin with)
stip wrote:There is a lot if stuff worth criticizing the 10c over. The merchandise isn't one of them. Shit, it may be the only thing not worth criticizing.
I know I posted this already but I do think complaints about the band's truckloads of merchandise are legitimate.
Birds in Hell wrote:
stip wrote:The question I'd ask is 'should pearl jam stop making harmless and inessential things that a narrow set of intense fans really loves to have?' If your answer is yes, what are you basing that off of besides 'I don't like it.'?
I think playing in a band is always essentially a creative endeavour; it's impossible to separate Pearl Jam as a business entity from Pearl Jam as musicians.
Everything that comes out with the Pearl Jam name attached is, on some level, a reflection on them and their art, even moreso now as the buck always stops with them and not a third party (Sony, etc). T-shirts, figurines, dog collars, Faithfull Ale, Facebook posts: all of this is inseparable from Pearl Jam as a creative entity.
If people think those things are unappealing or poorly-chosen, that can't help but reflect on the band. Not to the same degree as awful music, of course, but I can understand the temptation to lump them together if you discern a general downwards trend.
stip wrote:It's a non-essential product made for hobbyists. I'd be bothered if they stuck a new song on it to make people feel like they HAD to buy it.
Honestly, I'd find no issue with a limited-run 7" of songs completely unavailable elsewhere. That would actually be pretty cool.
I think I just don't judge a band by the quality of their shirts.
I also decided you are right about the 7 inch record thing. I keep forgetting that you wouldn't need to buy the product to hear the songs
given2trade wrote:stip said: "pearl jams music is never anti capitalism either."
that's probably the greatest line you've written...today?
Okay, what lyrics/songs do you feel like pointing to that you couldn't also find in a bob Dylan song, which is what that post was responding to?
Oh I can't. But Pearl Jam and EV have definitely been anti-capitalist in the past. To the fullest extent. Soon Forget is really all we need there but also about a dozen lines from EV in concerts. He hates rich people who make money in the stock market unless he's best friends w/ them now.
A concert rant does not a political philosophy make. And soon forget is about the costs of a life devoted to making money and nothing else. It's not that the things this guy has are bad. It's what he had to give up to get them.
bodysnatcher wrote:
To: info@tenclub.net
From: [redacted]
Subject: Dropbox Proposal
Dear Tim Bierman -
Recently, I was made aware of Pearl Jam's financial venture with the file-sharing company Dropbox. As a frequent, premium user of this service, let me say that I am ecstatic to have one of my favorite bands see the potential in this trendsetting company. I, and I'm sure other fans of the band, find a link of solitude with Pearl Jam's vision of the future of cloud technology. I am also very aware of Pearl Jam's propensity for visual art and design while translating this into very eye-catching (and sought after) merchandise made available to its fan club. I am reaching out to you today to offer a proposal for a new design for Pearl Jam's interest in Dropbox. Not only could this item create a unity between Pearl Jam and their fans that are Dropbox users, but I think it may be a way to capitalize (and advertise) their association with Dropbox, while creating higher returns for their investment in the company.
Please let me know if you are interested, and we can schedule a more detailed conversation. I look forward to hearing from you.
so you go after my 10 club merchandising line because the other stuff is completely indefensible.
music sucks and they are corporate whores. and the 10 club really really sucks but it's ok that they sell dog collars. got it.
That last sentence is correct. Someone, somewhere is a happier person because they have that dog collar.
Just because some dolt somewhere will pay money for something, anything with Pearl Jam written on it doesn't necessarily mean the band should aggressively market things to them - or, more accurately, that there isn't any downside to doing so.
bodysnatcher wrote:
To: info@tenclub.net
From: [redacted]
Subject: Dropbox Proposal
Dear Tim Bierman -
Recently, I was made aware of Pearl Jam's financial venture with the file-sharing company Dropbox. As a frequent, premium user of this service, let me say that I am ecstatic to have one of my favorite bands see the potential in this trendsetting company. I, and I'm sure other fans of the band, find a link of solitude with Pearl Jam's vision of the future of cloud technology. I am also very aware of Pearl Jam's propensity for visual art and design while translating this into very eye-catching (and sought after) merchandise made available to its fan club. I am reaching out to you today to offer a proposal for a new design for Pearl Jam's interest in Dropbox. Not only could this item create a unity between Pearl Jam and their fans that are Dropbox users, but I think it may be a way to capitalize (and advertise) their association with Dropbox, while creating higher returns for their investment in the company.
Please let me know if you are interested, and we can schedule a more detailed conversation. I look forward to hearing from you.
