Post-Riot Act Moneygrab

[stip]

I would rather a few more mediocre albums sprinkled with a few good/ great tracks than them giving up. They haven't released a great album since Yield, but I really enjoyed Backspacer.

Ultimately I think Eddie will evolve into primarily a solo artist sprinkled with a few nostalgic PJ gigs

oh god yes. Every song I really like enhances my life, and the ones I don't don't cost me anything.

[stip]

How specific will our criteria need to get for Pearl Jam to decisively be the greatest band of all-time?

Merchandise and number of drummers, I would think.

[Jorge]

The standards of the modern Pearl Jam fan

[EJ]

The standards of the modern Pearl Jam fan

go ahead, post that filet-o-fish pic

[stip]

lol, people are saying pearl jam are above radiohead?

Pearl Jam are so much better than Radiohead. Even moneygrabbing Pearl Jam.

I can definitely respect your opinion. And at one point I would have completely agreed with you. But with my shifting musical tastes over the last 10-15 years, Radiohead is in a different league for me. The kind of league where I'll be bragging to younger kids when I'm older that I was around for them.

Raidohead hasn't done anything i've cared about (a few songs here and there) since OK Computer. Having said that, they've clearly been more influential for longer than Pearl Jam, although at the peek of their influence (in the states anyway) I think pearl jam dominated in a way radiohead didn't.

[Jorge]

The standards of the modern Pearl Jam fan

go ahead, post that filet-o-fish pic

I will not.

[stip]

Actually, this is a perfect example of my disappointment with PJ's current output. Pendulum was written in what, 2008, right? It was left off of Backspacer, not selected for various reasons, didn't "fit" the album, or whatever. The reality is that it wasn't (and still isn't) a fully developed song. It's a neat little effects trick with some type of electronic percussion that Jeff did something cool with. Ed writes some vague lyrics 5 years later and they slap a title on it, and label it a Pearl Jam song. Plop it just a couple of tunes ahead of a re-recording of an EV solo song, and BAM - two tracks done for the new album. Neither are bad Pearl Jam, and both are enjoyable listens on the album, but still, neither is singularly impressive.

The current Pearl Jam musical product is really just about slappin' shit together and trying to sell records. OK fine. Now, it's certainly not necessarily a bad thing to revisit older songs left on the cutting block and put them on new records. But, it's just proves that there's not that much effort put in when it's done in tandem with a complete lack of B-sides or anything else creatively productive in the 3 years before or likely 4-5 years after. We have Of The Earth and Ole and not much else.

I really don't think it's like that. They spent a shitton of time on those records. In fact, if there's any argument I'd make against those albums, it's that they didn't leave some songs alone enough. Every single second of the last 3 albums was quite meticulously thought through by the band. Where, with Vitalogy and No Code it was closer to a stream of consciousness thing pouring out of them that they just left alone and released. If anything, they were just slapping songs together during those albums, it's just that they are "purer" artistically cause they were left alone and were closer to how they were originally written. You see the interviews and Jeff says he wishes he had more time with those records. They would have surely dug more into songs like In My Tree.

I think what they've been trying to do these last few records (or post-Riot Act moneygrab as it is erroneously called here) is make the chorusus and verses as hard-hitting and immediate as possible. Resolve the melody as soon as possible, don't let it linger, and hit em hard with the chorus. When there's a bridge, get right to it and then get out and get back to the song. They spent alot of time just skimming these songs down as much as they could. What you get are songs that, atleast try to attempt to engage immediatately, and not expect the listener to invest extra time, just grab em while you got em. What happens, and what I think some people object to, is that when a melody resolves itself too fast, the listener doesn't have enough to dig into on those repeated listens and sometimes loses steam with them. And some of the "fat" they've cut out has been some of the quirkier parts that they would have left in between Vitalogy and Riot Act. All of those albums had little quirks and experiments left in.

Vitalogy, No Code, and Riot Act in particular are albums where they went in and out of the studio in a few sessions and left those songs alone. S/t, especially, was analyzed from every angle. Backspacer and LB had shorter studio sessions but they clearly spent alot of time honing in on parts to make them as streamlined as possible. Maybe not yeilding the result some people wanted, but it definitely wasn't just slapping shit together.

All of this talk of the band getting lazier is hogwash. In fact, they've probably been overanalyzing their songs too much and taken off some of the quirkier parts that have endeared the hardcore fans in the middle years or just making the melody so concise that it doesn't veer off enough. I'd take the argument that they've overdone these last 3 records rather than underdone.

I'd like to get on board with the post.

[stip]

But how will we ever know how many songs they really were writing? They have't released b-sides. It's my belief that they just want the albums to speak for themselves and I think they were leery of having b-sides outshine and getting alot of extra attention. They just wanted the albums to speak for themselves, I believe.

The 28 months following the end of the band’s tour in support of Vs included the Vitalogy and No Code sessions, Mirrorball, the Dead Man Walking stuff, the Three Fish record, the Mad Season record, the start of work on the second Brad record (the first one came out either just before or during the Vs tour), and the initial work on some tracks that would end up appearing on Yield and Binaural, plus a half dozen b-sides and outtakes, give or take. That's two years, four months.

That's a hell of a lot of development-oriented music process going on, by people who are still out to prove something to themselves or to others, and it's a mighty stretchy set of sounds...even if it might not be entirely elastic.

that's also their high water mark though, hardly indicative of the rest of the career.

[aurynsdad]

Radiohead and Pearl Jam are the only two modern, long-lived bands from which I absolutely have to have every release on vinyl. They are vastly different creatures.

[bodysnatcher]

lol, people are saying pearl jam are above radiohead?

Pearl Jam are so much better than Radiohead. Even moneygrabbing Pearl Jam.

I can definitely respect your opinion. And at one point I would have completely agreed with you. But with my shifting musical tastes over the last 10-15 years, Radiohead is in a different league for me. The kind of league where I'll be bragging to younger kids when I'm older that I was around for them.

Raidohead hasn't done anything i've cared about (a few songs here and there) since OK Computer. Having said that, they've clearly been more influential for longer than Pearl Jam, although at the peek of their influence (in the states anyway) I think pearl jam dominated in a way radiohead didn't.

I think your PJ is my Radiohead, and in that I can respect your opinions on Backspacer and LB. Because your passion for those two albums is the way I feel about RH's latest, despite general public opinion

[given2trade]

Reading the PJ defenders in this thread is no different to me than reading a thread on religion w/ people passionately arguing in it's defense.

I joked years ago that there is literally nothing Pearl Jam could or (could not) do that would make some people see any criticism in them. This thread and most of the pit has proved that.

I'm thrilled you love this band. I'm thrilled it makes you happy. Unlike religion, it is causing nobody harm. So keep on rocking in the...yah.

[hlniv]

And yes, i extended the "good 'ol day" timeframe through 2006.

I feel this way too.

Me too. 2006 might have even been their peak as a live band. Possibly.

They were really firing in many ways. Their love show, yes, and they were still making done nice tunes. I think they chose the wrong singles, and the album got tired quick due to the bland listening experience. But other than that, it was a nice time with just a hint of the moneygrab maturing in its womb

[hlniv]

Actually, this is a perfect example of my disappointment with PJ's current output. Pendulum was written in what, 2008, right? It was left off of Backspacer, not selected for various reasons, didn't "fit" the album, or whatever. The reality is that it wasn't (and still isn't) a fully developed song. It's a neat little effects trick with some type of electronic percussion that Jeff did something cool with. Ed writes some vague lyrics 5 years later and they slap a title on it, and label it a Pearl Jam song. Plop it just a couple of tunes ahead of a re-recording of an EV solo song, and BAM - two tracks done for the new album. Neither are bad Pearl Jam, and both are enjoyable listens on the album, but still, neither is singularly impressive.

The current Pearl Jam musical product is really just about slappin' shit together and trying to sell records. OK fine. Now, it's certainly not necessarily a bad thing to revisit older songs left on the cutting block and put them on new records. But, it's just proves that there's not that much effort put in when it's done in tandem with a complete lack of B-sides or anything else creatively productive in the 3 years before or likely 4-5 years after. We have Of The Earth and Ole and not much else.

I really don't think it's like that. They spent a shitton of time on those records. In fact, if there's any argument I'd make against those albums, it's that they didn't leave some songs alone enough. Every single second of the last 3 albums was quite meticulously thought through by the band. Where, with Vitalogy and No Code it was closer to a stream of consciousness thing pouring out of them that they just left alone and released. If anything, they were just slapping songs together during those albums, it's just that they are "purer" artistically cause they were left alone and were closer to how they were originally written. You see the interviews and Jeff says he wishes he had more time with those records. They would have surely dug more into songs like In My Tree.

I think what they've been trying to do these last few records (or post-Riot Act moneygrab as it is erroneously called here) is make the chorusus and verses as hard-hitting and immediate as possible. Resolve the melody as soon as possible, don't let it linger, and hit em hard with the chorus. When there's a bridge, get right to it and then get out and get back to the song. They spent alot of time just skimming these songs down as much as they could. What you get are songs that, atleast try to attempt to engage immediatately, and not expect the listener to invest extra time, just grab em while you got em. What happens, and what I think some people object to, is that when a melody resolves itself too fast, the listener doesn't have enough to dig into on those repeated listens and sometimes loses steam with them. And some of the "fat" they've cut out has been some of the quirkier parts that they would have left in between Vitalogy and Riot Act. All of those albums had little quirks and experiments left in.

Vitalogy, No Code, and Riot Act in particular are albums where they went in and out of the studio in a few sessions and left those songs alone. S/t, especially, was analyzed from every angle. Backspacer and LB had shorter studio sessions but they clearly spent alot of time honing in on parts to make them as streamlined as possible. Maybe not yeilding the result some people wanted, but it definitely wasn't just slapping shit together.

All of this talk of the band getting lazier is hogwash. In fact, they've probably been overanalyzing their songs too much and taken off some of the quirkier parts that have endeared the hardcore fans in the middle years or just making the melody so concise that it doesn't veer off enough. I'd take the argument that they've overdone these last 3 records rather than underdone.

I'd like to get on board with the post.

I think the idea earlier (from McP I think) that's its really all just a symptom of a lack of songwriting time and commitment is a more accurate description than using the word "Lazy", which I don't think i actually used. This is a better description of my complaint over the lack of effort. Write more, release more, try out more shit. That's really all I want

[hlniv]

Reading the PJ defenders in this thread is no different to me than reading a thread on religion w/ people passionately arguing in it's defense.

I joked years ago that there is literally nothing Pearl Jam could or (could not) do that would make some people see any criticism in them. This thread and most of the pit has proved that.

I'm thrilled you love this band. I'm thrilled it makes you happy. Unlike religion, it is causing nobody harm. So keep on rocking in the...yah.

Explain to me how this thread proves that, again? Seems to me like it pretty well does the opposite in its prevailing debate

[96583UP]

when people here try to distinguish the first half of pearl jam's career vs the second, do people purposely look over what happened at roskilde in 2000? it seems to me if you are trying to narrow down when pearl jam "changed", seeing a bunch of fans die in front of them would be the most likely place.

In retrospect, these fans were lucky to not have to witness the post-riot act moneygrab.

not only isnt this funny, its borderline offensive. i know people here constantly try to be witty and whatnot, but this was a terrible attempt

Yeah, that's just poor taste

Those people died, Heathen.

No, this was kind of funny. Not funny like 'hey I'm glad those people died", but funny in like "this thread is totally ridiculous, and so why the hell not just make that joke"

FYI i was like one of 9 people who voted for Arc in march madness specifically out of my respect for its subject matter, so keep your high horse in your pants

heathen's tone was not to insult the dead but to insult the band, which deserves to be insulted, because its lead singer and fan club do so many stupid things now

now that that's settled, time to celebrate with some careless insults

[96583UP]

Eddie Vedder should have just not been a stoner and realized who his real daddy was long ago. None of this would have happened.

seriously how do you not look at that dude and eventually just be like hmmm weird how we share so many facial features and how he keeps emanating this vibe like he used to have sex with my mother

[Jorge]

keep your high horse in your pants

I WILL NOT

[96583UP]

We are in agreement here. That is definitely the richest creative period in the band's history. What I resent is the whole notion that they currently are in some PJ-on-ice mode where they can barely bother to get out of bed in the morning. They may not be as consistently creative as they were then, but the drop-off has been greatly exaggerated around here.

I believe that they are probably very passionate people...just not about creating new Pearl Jam music.

members' focus transitioned from putting everything into the band, to having families and personal lives; and lower maintenance side projects progressively sucked up creative juices like an easier to bang gumar, leaving PJ increasingly home alone watching soap operas

[96583UP]

keep your high horse in your pants

I WILL NOT

[given2trade]

when people here try to distinguish the first half of pearl jam's career vs the second, do people purposely look over what happened at roskilde in 2000? it seems to me if you are trying to narrow down when pearl jam "changed", seeing a bunch of fans die in front of them would be the most likely place.

In retrospect, these fans were lucky to not have to witness the post-riot act moneygrab.

not only isnt this funny, its borderline offensive. i know people here constantly try to be witty and whatnot, but this was a terrible attempt

Yeah, that's just poor taste

Those people died, Heathen.

No, this was kind of funny. Not funny like 'hey I'm glad those people died", but funny in like "this thread is totally ridiculous, and so why the hell not just make that joke"

FYI i was like one of 9 people who voted for Arc in march madness specifically out of my respect for its subject matter, so keep your high horse in your pants

heathen's tone was not to insult the dead but to insult the band, which deserves to be insulted, because its lead singer and fan club do so many stupid things now

now that that's settled, time to celebrate with some careless insults

i actually agree and laughed when i read it for the same reasons...and the people who were offended are the same people who think pearl jam is peaking right now...so...