malice wrote:i watched both scenes without either outrage or fascination - they both appeared appropriate in the universe of the story. the basic idea throughout is women are of little value other than as fuck holes, even the powerful ones that are smart, articulate, charismatic, and either already rule the land or probably will someday.
I don't have a problem with that either. it's perfectly within the context of the show, and none of those seeming incongruities were bothersome to watch
Mecca wrote:but seriously, I had a problem with the fact that they knowingly changed it from consensual to rape in both instances, but apparently this is the world that the show is trying to present. I don't think depicting rape means they are glorifying it, but it is some serious character assassination for Jamie who was trending upwards a lot since losing his hand.
This seems to be the biggest issue that folks at the Atlantic and AVClub have with this scene.
Yeah, but even the AV Club admitted that even though they didn't agree with the change from consensual to rape, they thought it was done well.
malice wrote:i watched both scenes without either outrage or fascination - they both appeared appropriate in the universe of the story. the basic idea throughout is women are of little value other than as fuck holes, even the powerful ones that are smart, articulate, charismatic, and either already rule the land or probably will someday.
I don't have a problem with that either. it's perfectly within the context of the show, and none of those seeming incongruities were bothersome to watch
Notably, I don't believe that HBO had the "Rape" content label before this episode; it only had "Nudity" and "Strong Sexual Content," 2 of my favorite content labels.
Mecca wrote:but seriously, I had a problem with the fact that they knowingly changed it from consensual to rape in both instances, but apparently this is the world that the show is trying to present. I don't think depicting rape means they are glorifying it, but it is some serious character assassination for Jamie who was trending upwards a lot since losing his hand.
This seems to be the biggest issue that folks at the Atlantic and AVClub have with this scene.
Yeah, but even the AV Club admitted that even though they didn't agree with the change from consensual to rape, they thought it was done well.
Very true. Good point.
A lot of it was also reacting the director's idiotic comments that the scene "wasn't rape", was a "turn-on" for the characters, and "became consensual by the end"
Anders wrote:I do not have a «neoliberal assessment of geopolitics», so please stop writing that I do.
Mecca wrote:but seriously, I had a problem with the fact that they knowingly changed it from consensual to rape in both instances, but apparently this is the world that the show is trying to present. I don't think depicting rape means they are glorifying it, but it is some serious character assassination for Jamie who was trending upwards a lot since losing his hand.
This seems to be the biggest issue that folks at the Atlantic and AVClub have with this scene.
Yeah, but even the AV Club admitted that even though they didn't agree with the change from consensual to rape, they thought it was done well.
Very true. Good point.
A lot of it was also reacting the director's idiotic comments that the scene "wasn't rape", was a "turn-on" for the characters, and "became consensual by the end"
Which it was in the books and both actors have said it was in the episode as well.
But, yeah, that's a totally different issue. Obviously it's rape. People shouldn't be saying it isn't rape. Even it it "becomes" consensual (whatever that really means). It's still very much rape.
durdencommatyler wrote:
Which it was in the books and both actors have said it was in the episode as well.
What it was in the books is irrelevant. What the actors think is irrelevant. What was shown in that scene, the way that it was presented in its final televised form, was rape. To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best. Watch the scene again and tell me if the audience witnesses the act "become consensual".
Edit: You edited your post and now my post is redundant, THANKS A LOT JOEY
Anders wrote:I do not have a «neoliberal assessment of geopolitics», so please stop writing that I do.
durdencommatyler wrote:
Which it was in the books and both actors have said it was in the episode as well.
What it was in the books is irrelevant. What the actors think is irrelevant. What was shown in that scene, the way that it was presented in its final televised form, was rape. To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best. Watch the scene again and tell me if the audience witnesses the act "become consensual".
Edit: You edited your post and now my post is redundant, THANKS A LOT JOEY
I did appreciate Littlefinger saying that Joffrey tortured Sansa for years, implying that the action of the show takes longer than the action of the book, and thereby justifying the kids aging a bit better.
malice wrote:i watched both scenes without either outrage or fascination - they both appeared appropriate in the universe of the story. the basic idea throughout is women are of little value other than as fuck holes, even the powerful ones that are smart, articulate, charismatic, and either already rule the land or probably will someday.
I don't have a problem with that either. it's perfectly within the context of the show, and none of those seeming incongruities were bothersome to watch - maybe it's just a slight exaggeration on how the world is so isn't that shocking to see played out in that manner?
While i agree that cersei getting raped is a tough scene to watch, to say that she, daenerys, or many other women on the show are depicted only as fuckholes by the men around them no matter how intelligent/charismatic they are is a stretch (and not of the fuckhole). cersei wields as much power as jaime in their relationship, as evidenced by the first couple of eps in this season - jaime needs her for something far deeper than casual fuckhole sex. in the end, both of them feel trapped by their father. dany is clearly viewed as more than a fuckhole by say, jorah, who's totally in love with her, and even a guy like daario who talks a big game seems to be more interesting in matching her power than dominating her. it's interesting that a guy like AreAre Martin, who clearly has a hyperactive sexual imagination, writes some of the strongest female characters i've seen on a hit show. to say that say, catelyn or ygritte are viewed centrally as fuckholes by the men who love them is to miss what's going on.
malice wrote:i watched both scenes without either outrage or fascination - they both appeared appropriate in the universe of the story. the basic idea throughout is women are of little value other than as fuck holes, even the powerful ones that are smart, articulate, charismatic, and either already rule the land or probably will someday.
I don't have a problem with that either. it's perfectly within the context of the show, and none of those seeming incongruities were bothersome to watch - maybe it's just a slight exaggeration on how the world is so isn't that shocking to see played out in that manner?
While i agree that cersei getting raped is a tough scene to watch, to say that she, daenerys, or many other women on the show are depicted only as fuckholes by the men around them no matter how intelligent/charismatic they are is a stretch (and not of the fuckhole). cersei wields as much power as jaime in their relationship, as evidenced by the first couple of eps in this season - jaime needs her for something far deeper than casual fuckhole sex. in the end, both of them feel trapped by their father. dany is clearly viewed as more than a fuckhole by say, jorah, who's totally in love with her, and even a guy like daario who talks a big game seems to be more interesting in matching her power than dominating her. it's interesting that a guy like AreAre Martin, who clearly has a hyperactive sexual imagination, writes some of the strongest female characters i've seen on a hit show. to say that say, catelyn or ygritte are viewed centrally as fuckholes by the men who love them is to miss what's going on.
