Star Wars: Episode VII: The Force Awakens (2015)

[Strat]

I like the sound of all of that.

[Kaius]

I'm not sure if I want to hit that button.

[dimejinky99]

they have to follow the original story, to a degree..this though, seems like a weak story. which means it will happen

[Strat]

they have to follow the original story, to a degree..this though, seems like a weak story. which means it will happen

Spoiler: show

Wasn't there talk of Darth Vader appearing again in these films? Goes along with the resurrection of the sith plot line.

I think it could be cool. I just can't imagine there being a shit ton of Jedi around though. The jedi were all but extinct and its not like Luke could train a massive army of jedi's since the end of ROTJ

[epilogue]

I'm not sure if I want to hit that button.

I clicked it earlier and I barely remember what it said. I don't think it's a very big deal and it's speculation, I think. It's kind of no-brainer stuff. Stuff it's easy to speculate about because some version of it is probably true. Would almost have to be.

[Kaius]

Thanks. I hit it. Probably spoiler worthy, but you're correct, seems to be nothing major and speculation only. Carry on.

[McParadigm]

I dunno. It seems like the sort of problem that would have been better if they were 20 years younger. Telling us that that shit is still going on decades later really undercuts the victory and sacrifices of those movies. It just says "Hey, remember those characters you liked so much? Well, they spent the rest of their lives in struggle and combat. And the big victory wasn't. And they were terrible at everything, too, because things are no better now than when we last saw them."

You can certainly use old bad guys as reference points, or as a starting place for the new, but at some point you cross a line into reducing your previous story's ending in order to avoid having to create anything of your own.

[Kaius]

I agree with that.

It needs to be more, "boy, we really knocked the empire's dick in the dirt, but it'd be nice if we could clean up some of the collateral damage. Oh, and I sure hope some of these extremist groups that have started to form across the galaxy don't get any big ideas."

But that's just a thought. Something has to give way for the dark side to gain influence, but, like you said, it shouldn't come at the expense of our old heroes former victory.

[McParadigm]

Oh, and I sure hope some of these extremist groups that have started to form across the galaxy don't get any big ideas."

I'm sure that would get sent right back by Papa Disney as being too politicized.

Because you can't say or imply terrorism/extremism without it being politically motivated, you know.

[Coach]

I didn't hit that spoiler stuff, but I agree with the sentiment here. ROTJ has got to be "the end" of the Empire and the Sith for a very long, long time. Not just 30 years....uh oh.

[Strat]

I didn't hit that spoiler stuff, but I agree with the sentiment here. ROTJ has got to be "the end" of the Empire and the Sith for a very long, long time. Not just 30 years....uh oh.

I dont know. its like game of thrones in a way. The emperor was destroyed but there are other factions out there now wanting control. Luke, being the master jedi at that point, started training and finding others to help keep/build some peace. can only last for so long.

cue star wars music. That is the new scroll.

[McParadigm]

no sir that's iraq

[spike]

I agree with that.

It needs to be more, "boy, we really knocked the empire's dick in the dirt, but it'd be nice if we could clean up some of the collateral damage. Oh, and I sure hope some of these extremist groups that have started to form across the galaxy don't get any big ideas."

But that's just a thought. Something has to give way for the dark side to gain influence, but, like you said, it shouldn't come at the expense of our old heroes former victory.

Spoiler: show

this is what it sounds like to me, which is fine. it doesn't undercut the rebel victory in ROTJ, because what that accomplished was defeating an imperial force that was poised to take over the galaxy. what it sounds like you have now is leftover disciples of the empire trying to get things going again, and struggling to do so for the last 30 years - ie, luke et all have kept the dark side suppressed for that long, giving the galaxy a chance to prosper in a new era.

unfortunately, maybe these jedi hunters have discovered a way to resurrect sith or at least become more powerful, so luke is in desperate need of help and looks to find powerful jedi candidates to pass on the torch and lead the fight once he's gone (there's no doubt he'll die in this movie or the next and become the next obi wan, right?). this is where the new plot line commences.

[stip]

The 30 years of civil war ending is probably the single most realistic outcome to the collapse of imperial regimes. The star wars galaxy was ruled by the old republic for thousands of years. The empire basically took over that old organization and gave it a new administrative structure (the Empire didn't conquer the Old Republic--it usurped it). The Rebellion was able to destroy the old regime, but it lacked the capacity to take over the old imperial infrastructure. Nor was the entirety of the Empire at Endor. I like the idea that 30 years later there is a burgeoning new republic being built by what was the rebellion, remnants of the empire, new powers, civil war, tons of local self-governing systems.

Does this undercut the sacrifice at the end of Jedi? It qualifies it in a be careful what you wish for kind of way, especially because we never learn what was so terrible about the Empire in the first place.

[McParadigm]

Meh. Maybe if the project was in different hands, I could see it that way. But as a JJ Abram's production it just reeks of the list.

"Oh, I mean they have to be fighting the empire. Otherwise it's not Star Wars. If we don't have the Empire and storm troopers, then people won't feel enough nostalgia and they'll judge this movie on its own terms. We definitely can't have that. Now what's the fastest, easiest way for us to toss everything familiar in there without muddying this thing up with plot or story?"

The answer, of course, is

Spoiler: show

very lazily

[spike]

Meh. Maybe if the project was in different hands, I could see it that way. But as a JJ Abram's production it just reeks of the list.

"Oh, I mean they have to be fighting the empire. Otherwise it's not Star Wars. If we don't have the Empire and storm troopers, then people won't feel enough nostalgia and they'll judge this movie on its own terms. We definitely can't have that. Now what's the fastest, easiest way for us to toss everything familiar in there without muddying this thing up with plot or story?"

The answer, of course, is

Spoiler: show

very lazily

Gooood. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

[Kaius]

Much anger I sense in him, like his father.

[Simple Torture]

Even if 30 years later in the new stupid "canon" there are Imperial remnants and the rebellion hasn't fully coalesced into a new republic, I don't think the sacrifices of the first three movies are in vain/lessened in meaning at all. They had two friggin' Death Stars! Even if 75% of the rebels died at the Battle of Endor, taking away that sort of power was certainly worth it, don't you think?

Don't read if you're tired of the "Oh, well, in the expanded universe..." stuff:

Spoiler: show

Oh, well, in the expanded universe, I think a number of the writers recognized this (i.e., that the idea of truly apocalyptic power can raise the stakes higher than simple ship-to-ship, tank-to-tank battle); that's why there were a number of superweapons in the post-Jedi EU (the Suncrusher, the Dark Saber, the Eclipse-class star destroyers, the world devastators).

A good, high-quality movie can be made without such a threat (like, I dunno, the Empire Strikes Back), but it can certainly make the stakes apparent from the get-go. After Alderaan blows up, has anyone who has ever seen IV ever wonder what's at stake in the movie? What about when we learn that Qui Gon Jinn and Obi Wan have to help broker a deal with the trade federation? Uhhh... (see?)

Sorry, this post went in all sorts of weird directions.

[Coach]

Meh. Maybe if the project was in different hands, I could see it that way. But as a JJ Abram's production it just reeks of the list.

"Oh, I mean they have to be fighting the empire. Otherwise it's not Star Wars. If we don't have the Empire and storm troopers, then people won't feel enough nostalgia and they'll judge this movie on its own terms. We definitely can't have that. Now what's the fastest, easiest way for us to toss everything familiar in there without muddying this thing up with plot or story?"

The answer, of course, is

Spoiler: show

very lazily

Your list is scary, and we should bookmark it to see how your predictions fair....

[E.H. Ruddock]

I hope we see Bosk. Or Greedo. Whichever one didn't get killed in the cantina on that moisture farm planet.