The War on Terror /Central Asia/Mid East/Africa thread

[Green Habit]

What's crazy about it? Looks like par for the course to me.

Oh I agree--it's just crazy that while the rest of world is wondering WTF Netanyahu is doing, he gets the support where it matters.

[Birds in Hell]

still cant get over this report....the average age in Gaza is 17....thats incredible given whats happening...
This will rip your heart out..dont watch if you have kids or are feeling fragile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

My impression is that Hamas, if anyone, bears the brunt of responsibility for those deaths; they appear to be perfectly happy to place children knowingly in harm's way while continuing attacks on Israel, fully aware of the consequences of doing so. It's abominable.

[dimejinky99]

The child shield argument has been totally debunked Spenno, even if it were true, it makes no difference, IDF are shooting at anything that moves basically. Four young Palestinian boys playing soccer on a beach were all killed this week by an Israeli naval vessel. They expect us to believe they couldnt see what they were shooting at? The 6th most technologically equipped military in the world? its beyond massacre at this point. They're killing indiscriminately, and the numbers are backing that up alone.

[dimejinky99]

If you do nothing else, just watch this..one of the UKs most respected journalists...its three minutes long and hes just back from there
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07 ... 24934.html

[Kaius]

still cant get over this report....the average age in Gaza is 17....thats incredible given whats happening...
This will rip your heart out..dont watch if you have kids or are feeling fragile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

My impression is that Hamas, if anyone, bears the brunt of responsibility for those deaths; they appear to be perfectly happy to place children knowingly in harm's way while continuing attacks on Israel, fully aware of the consequences of doing so. It's abominable.

Sorry, but that's a load of shit.

A person takes full responsibility when they pull the trigger. You can't blame the target. Those childrens' blood is on Israeli hands, no one elses.

[BurtReynolds]

still cant get over this report....the average age in Gaza is 17....thats incredible given whats happening...
This will rip your heart out..dont watch if you have kids or are feeling fragile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

My impression is that Hamas, if anyone, bears the brunt of responsibility for those deaths; they appear to be perfectly happy to place children knowingly in harm's way while continuing attacks on Israel, fully aware of the consequences of doing so. It's abominable.

Sorry, but that's a load of shit.

A person takes full responsibility when they pull the trigger. You can't blame the target. Those childrens' blood is on Israeli hands, no one elses.

Heh and that exchange is Palestinian/israeli conflict in a nutshell.

[Kaius]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

[BurtReynolds]

[Fuck You Jobu]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

As a soldier, in war, your responsibility is not on protecting the person you shoot - it's protecting your fellow soldiers and yourself.

[Fuck You Jobu]

this is powerful stuff

Why There Has Never Been Another Jewish State in the Last 2000 Years
http://www.truetorahjews.org/neverbeen
The Israeli Cabinet has approved a law that requires new citizens to declare their loyalty to a "Jewish state." Furthermore, Prime Minister Netanyahu demands that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state as a prerequisite to halting settlement construction.

In defense of the new law, Netanyahu noted that "there is no other Jewish state in the world."

Actually, the fact that there is no other Jewish state is because it is un-Jewish to have a state. Throughout their 2000-year-long exile, Jews have had many opportunities to establish their own state, but they voluntarily refrained from doing so, knowing that G-d commanded them to wait for His redemption, via the messiah.

In about the year 132 CE, Bar Kochba led a Jewish revolt against Rome and established a Jewish kingdom. The Talmud relates that Bar Kochba claimed to be the messiah. The Sages tested him, and when they were satisfied that he was not the messiah, they killed him. We see clearly that subsequent to the destruction of the Temple, the Talmudic Sages were against the existence of any Jewish state before the coming of the messiah.

In 1536, the Portuguese Inquisition was launched, and Jews became subject to severe persecution and public burnings. The Jews of Portugal saw an opportunity to take over the kingdom, but one old Jewish sage asked G-d, using a Kabbalistic method, if this was the right thing to do. G-d replied with the words of the Song of Songs 2:7, "I adjure you not arouse or awaken..." - the very verse quoted by the Talmud as the source that Jews are not allowed to force the end of exile. As a result, the plan to revolt was scrapped.

In 1826, when Mordecai Noah proposed to found an all-Jewish state or colony on Grand Island near Buffalo, New York, and send letters to the rabbis of Europe asking them to be leaders in the new state, here is the answer he got from Abraham de Cologna, Chief Rabbi of Paris:

"The venerable Messrs. Herschell and Mendola, Chief Rabbis at London, and myself, thank him, but positively refuse the appointments he has been pleased to confer upon us. We declare that according to our dogmas, God alone knows the epoch of the Israelitish restoration, that he alone will make it known to the whole universe by signs entirely unequivocal, and that every attempt on our part to reassemble with any politico-national design is forbidden, as an act of high treason against the Divine Majesty."

Such was always the Jewish viewpoint, accepted as obvious by all Jews, everywhere, throughout 19 centuries. It was only Jews who knew nothing of Judaism, such as Herzl and his colleagues, who could conceive of a "Jewish state."

So we reiterate: Netanyahu, you have no right to ask anyone - Jew or non-Jew - to recognize your state as a Jewish state, since its entire existence violates the Jewish religion. We protest and condemn the use of OUR name for YOUR state.

LOL

The title is bullshit from the beginning. The concept of the modern state originated in 1648 from the Peace of Westphalia.

[dimejinky99]

Orthodox jews, and a lot of non zionist jews never wanted an israeli state. Just watched a panel of Rabbis explaining this on a news program last night. It's against a lot of the rules in the torah for them to have a state.

[Kaius]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

As a soldier, in war, your responsibility is not on protecting the person you shoot - it's protecting your fellow soldiers and yourself.

I've read and re-read that sentence several times and I can't make any sense out of it. Where you coming from? What's your point?

[Fuck You Jobu]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

As a soldier, in war, your responsibility is not on protecting the person you shoot - it's protecting your fellow soldiers and yourself.

I've read and re-read that sentence several times and I can't make any sense out of it. Where you coming from? What's your point?

When you're a soldier, you're instructed that the person on the other side shooting at you is the enemy.

[Kaius]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

As a soldier, in war, your responsibility is not on protecting the person you shoot - it's protecting your fellow soldiers and yourself.

I've read and re-read that sentence several times and I can't make any sense out of it. Where you coming from? What's your point?

When you're a soldier, you're instructed that the person on the other side shooting at you is the enemy.

How does that pertain to killing innocent people, intentionally or not, and taking responsibility for that action and not blaming it on someone else; someone who did not pull the trigger on your gun?

[Fuck You Jobu]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

As a soldier, in war, your responsibility is not on protecting the person you shoot - it's protecting your fellow soldiers and yourself.

I've read and re-read that sentence several times and I can't make any sense out of it. Where you coming from? What's your point?

When you're a soldier, you're instructed that the person on the other side shooting at you is the enemy.

How does that pertain to killing innocent people, intentionally or not, and taking responsibility for that action and not blaming it on someone else; someone who did not pull the trigger on your gun?

1) You don't know if the target is civilian or not. Hamas practices guerrilla warfare, which by definition blurs the line between soldier/civilian. Just because they are a civilian now, doesn't mean they weren't shooting rockets a couple of minutes ago or may be a suicide bomber tomorrow.

2) And with that, you're under orders to fire, not not question orders. This is war.

[dimejinky99]

It's not a war..it's a massacre..

[dimejinky99]

a totally one sided massacre

[McParadigm]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

As a soldier, in war, your responsibility is not on protecting the person you shoot - it's protecting your fellow soldiers and yourself.

I've read and re-read that sentence several times and I can't make any sense out of it. Where you coming from? What's your point?

When you're a soldier, you're instructed that the person on the other side shooting at you is the enemy.

How does that pertain to killing innocent people, intentionally or not, and taking responsibility for that action and not blaming it on someone else; someone who did not pull the trigger on your gun?

1) You don't know if the target is civilian or not. Hamas practices guerrilla warfare, which by definition blurs the line between soldier/civilian. Just because they are a civilian now, doesn't mean they weren't shooting rockets a couple of minutes ago or may be a suicide bomber tomorrow.

2) And with that, you're under orders to fire, not not question orders. This is war.

How delightfully morally repugnant

[Fuck You Jobu]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

As a soldier, in war, your responsibility is not on protecting the person you shoot - it's protecting your fellow soldiers and yourself.

I've read and re-read that sentence several times and I can't make any sense out of it. Where you coming from? What's your point?

When you're a soldier, you're instructed that the person on the other side shooting at you is the enemy.

How does that pertain to killing innocent people, intentionally or not, and taking responsibility for that action and not blaming it on someone else; someone who did not pull the trigger on your gun?

1) You don't know if the target is civilian or not. Hamas practices guerrilla warfare, which by definition blurs the line between soldier/civilian. Just because they are a civilian now, doesn't mean they weren't shooting rockets a couple of minutes ago or may be a suicide bomber tomorrow.

2) And with that, you're under orders to fire, not not question orders. This is war.

How delightfully morally repugnant

Welcome to the real world.

[McParadigm]

You hold the gun, you pull the trigger, you take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't give a shit about either one of their crooked ideals or their bullshit gods.

As a soldier, in war, your responsibility is not on protecting the person you shoot - it's protecting your fellow soldiers and yourself.

I've read and re-read that sentence several times and I can't make any sense out of it. Where you coming from? What's your point?

When you're a soldier, you're instructed that the person on the other side shooting at you is the enemy.

How does that pertain to killing innocent people, intentionally or not, and taking responsibility for that action and not blaming it on someone else; someone who did not pull the trigger on your gun?

1) You don't know if the target is civilian or not. Hamas practices guerrilla warfare, which by definition blurs the line between soldier/civilian. Just because they are a civilian now, doesn't mean they weren't shooting rockets a couple of minutes ago or may be a suicide bomber tomorrow.

2) And with that, you're under orders to fire, not not question orders. This is war.

How delightfully morally repugnant

Welcome to the real world.

Its just the real world is so much more like a Russian excursion into Chechnya than i expected it to be. And the conversation is duller, too.