TV: Breaking Bad

[Jorge]

and that's fine by me if you want to have that opinion. what bugs me the most (on this board specificially, platypus seemingly most often) is that people feel compelled to convince other people that their opinion is "wrong." please, as often happens, correct my spelling and my facts, but don't try and convince me of something i've decided for myself. i personally choose to believe that these characters demonstrated a range of behaviors, but ultimately, I don't believe they ever really learned anything. take Bubbles from The Wire as an example of somebody that learns something over 5 seasons of a series.

Of course an opinion can't be wrong, but they can (and, in this case, are) poorly argued or defended. And yeah, I get it, my initial post in the Wire thread telling you to stfu was rude. But then I got serious and told you I'd be interested in reading you elaborate on your critique. Only after two pages of prying did you offer anything other than glib dismissiveness. Example:

i personally choose to believe that these characters demonstrated a range of behaviors, but ultimately, I don't believe they ever really learned anything.

You keep making empty statements like this (in fact, this is the only statement you've made, over and over again) without providing examples. And if you want to simply piggyback on what Skitch said, why not address my responses to him?

Exchanging opinions about a piece of art can be enlightening and fun when both parties are engaged and offer thoughtful arguments. If all you offer is empty provocations like

breaking bad sucks.

and

it was the ssdd episode after episode.

and

it's annoying as FUCK.

and

it shames this thread discussing it.

and you take your sweet time before attempting to properly defend them, and then you don't properly defend them... yeah. That's a frustrating conversation to be a part of.

[Mecca]

tl;dr version: we're not saying your ideas are stupid, we're just offering our side because we see things differently that maybe you don't see and provided examples to back up our claim.

[Norah]

No, his ideas are stupid.

[VinylGuy]

No, his ideas are stupid.

[epilogue]

There a start date for S5:2 yet?

[Stickman]

New Breaking Bad season 5,episode 9 air date finally revealed. According to a new report from Collider, Aaron Paul aka Jessie Pinkman,hopped on Twitter to finally give fans a an air date for the upcoming Breaking Bad episode 9 of season 5 and the rest of the 2nd half of the season,which was decided to be delayed for a full freaking year by AMC. It turns out that the air date will land on July 14th,2013 as Aaron tweeted, "New episodes of Breaking Bad will air July 14th. Get ready to break some shit." However, it's also reported that AMC has denied this air date,but it's believed to be true in spite of that as the AMC wanted to be the ones to drop the official air date. Also, they revealed that producer Vince Gilligan said, the series finale will be polarizing, and that it will draw comparisons to Casablanca.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni44175925/

[Orpheus]

It's true that Walt and Jesse keep returning to each other, but their relationship definitely changes each time and the cumulative effect is massive. In the beginning Walt is basically an uptight buffoon to Jesse, someone he can use to make some money and some free glass off of. Then they become partners; they trust each other, and Walt becomes sort of a pseudo-father figure to Jesse, one that he is eventually willing to do awful things for. After this their relationship devolves into almost a master-slave dichotomy; Jesse is beholden to Walt and leaving their operation could have potentially fatal consequences for him. Of course at the point we're at now they're "done", but the damage has already happened and Jesse (just like Skylar and Hank) can never see Walt in the same way again. So in light of all that, I think it's pretty shallow to characterize their relationship as "SSDD" just because they partner up again and again. Each time it's very, very different.

I'd also like to defend Skylar and Walt Jr. a little bit. Without them the show loses grounding, and there are no stakes for Walt. I mean, the whole thrust of the show is that he starts this to provide for these people. Yes, they may be "annoying" but only in the way that the voice of reason is always "annoying." Both characters are fantastically acted and the show wouldn't really have any meaning without them. It would just be dudes cooking drugs with only their own lives at stake.

[epilogue]

New Breaking Bad season 5,episode 9 air date finally revealed. According to a new report from Collider, Aaron Paul aka Jessie Pinkman,hopped on Twitter to finally give fans a an air date for the upcoming Breaking Bad episode 9 of season 5 and the rest of the 2nd half of the season,which was decided to be delayed for a full freaking year by AMC. It turns out that the air date will land on July 14th,2013 as Aaron tweeted, "New episodes of Breaking Bad will air July 14th. Get ready to break some shit." However, it's also reported that AMC has denied this air date,but it's believed to be true in spite of that as the AMC wanted to be the ones to drop the official air date. Also, they revealed that producer Vince Gilligan said, the series finale will be polarizing, and that it will draw comparisons to Casablanca.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni44175925/

Casablanca, huh? Interesting.

Ya know, the last time a show runner told me their finale would be "polarizing" it was one of my favorite finales in TV history. Pretty much everyone else hated it.

[epilogue]

I'd also like to defend Skylar and Walt Jr. a little bit. Without them the show loses grounding, and there are no stakes for Walt. I mean, the whole thrust of the show is that he starts this to provide for these people. Yes, they may be "annoying" but only in the way that the voice of reason is always "annoying." Both characters are fantastically acted and the show wouldn't really have any meaning without them. It would just be dudes cooking drugs with only their own lives at stake.

Completely agree. What Skylar and Walt Jr bring to the show is what keeps me coming back. This show would border on the ridiculous without the grounding they provide. The best parts of the show, for me, are watching Walt struggle/deal with his family and the man he's become (and the man he wants to be) in their eyes.

[Norah]

New Breaking Bad season 5,episode 9 air date finally revealed. According to a new report from Collider, Aaron Paul aka Jessie Pinkman,hopped on Twitter to finally give fans a an air date for the upcoming Breaking Bad episode 9 of season 5 and the rest of the 2nd half of the season,which was decided to be delayed for a full freaking year by AMC. It turns out that the air date will land on July 14th,2013 as Aaron tweeted, "New episodes of Breaking Bad will air July 14th. Get ready to break some shit." However, it's also reported that AMC has denied this air date,but it's believed to be true in spite of that as the AMC wanted to be the ones to drop the official air date. Also, they revealed that producer Vince Gilligan said, the series finale will be polarizing, and that it will draw comparisons to Casablanca.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni44175925/

Casablanca, huh? Interesting.

Ya know, the last time a show runner told me their finale would be "polarizing" it was one of my favorite finales in TV history. Pretty much everyone else hated it.

Ugh, you liked the Seinfeld finale!?

[Orpheus]

One of my absolute favorite moments in the whole series is when Walt is comforting Skylar in bed and you can see her disgust and sadness at the situation. You can see her not only falling out of love but into a deep hatred for him. Powerful stuff.

[epilogue]

New Breaking Bad season 5,episode 9 air date finally revealed. According to a new report from Collider, Aaron Paul aka Jessie Pinkman,hopped on Twitter to finally give fans a an air date for the upcoming Breaking Bad episode 9 of season 5 and the rest of the 2nd half of the season,which was decided to be delayed for a full freaking year by AMC. It turns out that the air date will land on July 14th,2013 as Aaron tweeted, "New episodes of Breaking Bad will air July 14th. Get ready to break some shit." However, it's also reported that AMC has denied this air date,but it's believed to be true in spite of that as the AMC wanted to be the ones to drop the official air date. Also, they revealed that producer Vince Gilligan said, the series finale will be polarizing, and that it will draw comparisons to Casablanca.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni44175925/

Casablanca, huh? Interesting.

Ya know, the last time a show runner told me their finale would be "polarizing" it was one of my favorite finales in TV history. Pretty much everyone else hated it.

Ugh, you liked the Seinfeld finale!?

Oh heavens no!

[epilogue]

One of my absolute favorite moments in the whole series is when Walt is comforting Skylar in bed and you can see her disgust and sadness at the situation. You can see her not only falling out of love but into a deep hatred for him. Powerful stuff.

Yes! Absolutely, and the crawlspace episode. The tension brewed in that episode come entirely from the actions of the characters. It's the crux of what makes the show great. Walt's reaction to finding the money gone and Skylar's reaction to Walt is just frightening and heartbreaking in the most profound way.

[elliseamos]

tl;dr version: we're not saying your ideas are stupid, we're just offering our side because we see things differently that maybe you don't see and provided examples to back up our claim.

you all definitely see plenty i don't see. you all also seek out plenty where as i'm more than comfortable looking at the character interactions fairly superficially. i'll try and provide some more examples from here on (because i do like the story and want to know how it ends), but i for one choose/prefer not to get super abstract/meta with my posting for fear of being misunderstood (yet again, although clearly it's my own fault).

i'll spoiler it in case somebody happens upon this conversation:

Spoiler: show

example 1: jesse shoots gale - i don't see this as jesse growing/learning anything. i see it only as a life or death situation which we can agree most everyone will act to preserve their own life (had gale had a gun, jesse would have been killed... some libertarian he turned out to be). we already know jesse has the capacity/willingness to kill (tuco, tomas's muscle), he's just yet to act on it. his subsequent crack-house is just a doubling-down of his already expressed maladaptive coping-mechanism (his response to jane, his aunt) only to have walt help him out, save him.

example 2: walt (in general) - sometimes it was within an episode, other times it was across a whole season or seasons, but walt is pretty easily manipulated by the people around him (which i'd summarize as annoying especially considering why he's a lowly-teacher and an underachiever to begin with). skylar knows this, jesse knows this, gus knows this (to name a few) and each take turns using walt's predictability to their own benefit. the fact that walt is so often creating problems for himself (like upping the amount they'll cook as a very subtle instance) and then resolving it for himself and those around him (starting w/ the guy in jesse's basement) doesn't show learning, it shows a very predictable pattern of getting done what needs to get done in order to survive (overlooking the fact that the situation could have been mostly avoided). i agree, that it's good writing that you could know a character well enough to know what to expect from them, but in reality, i think we also expect people to learn from their mistakes/missteps. i understand the reality that once walt allows jesse to be replaced it's only a matter of time before he himself is also replaced. what i don't understand is how a guy like gus can orchestrate his business (with all it's layers) and yet walt & jesse are able to exert the amount of power that they do especially considering, as i said above, gus knows full well how to manipulate walt.

[@SkitchP]

I'd also like to defend Skylar and Walt Jr. a little bit. Without them the show loses grounding, and there are no stakes for Walt. I mean, the whole thrust of the show is that he starts this to provide for these people. Yes, they may be "annoying" but only in the way that the voice of reason is always "annoying." Both characters are fantastically acted and the show wouldn't really have any meaning without them. It would just be dudes cooking drugs with only their own lives at stake.

The existence of Walt Jr. and Skylar aren't my problem. I agree they are a needed base for Walt. Bad guy Walt wouldn't be nearly as interesting if there was no reason for him to be good guy Walt. I just don't care for how either character is written or portrayed. I think I could tolerate Skylar as a voice of reason if I could actually see her as a voice of reason, hell,even if she was just a wet blanket. Instead I think they try too hard to make her interesting and it just doesn't work for me, at all.


Did I mention I really do love Breaking Bad?

[@SkitchP]

also, true story... I am okay with the Seinfeld finale. I didn't love it, but I understand why they did it the way they did it.

[epilogue]

also, true story... I am okay with the Seinfeld finale. I didn't love it, but I understand why they did it the way they did it.

I thought it was pretty terrible. Like you, I understand whey the did it the way they did, but that doesn't excuse anything, for me.

[@SkitchP]

also, true story... I am okay with the Seinfeld finale. I didn't love it, but I understand why they did it the way they did it.

I thought it was pretty terrible. Like you, I understand whey the did it the way they did, but that doesn't excuse anything, for me.

Much like every school project degenerates into a Jeopardy style game show, or faux classroom skit, it was really the only way to get in everything they needed to.

[@SkitchP]

also, true story... I am okay with the Seinfeld finale. I didn't love it, but I understand why they did it the way they did it.

I thought it was pretty terrible. Like you, I understand whey the did it the way they did, but that doesn't excuse anything, for me.

Much like every school project degenerates into a Jeopardy style game show, or faux classroom skit, it was really the only way to get in everything they needed to.

[zeb]

The first half of the Seinfeld finale is pretty solid.