Avocado Demos II leak!

[Kevin Davis]

Can someone with a good ear describe the subtle mixing differences on Lost Dogs vs. the originals? The re-recordings are pretty obvious, but I remember listening to a side by side of the two versions of "Undone" and not noticing a difference.

one difference with 'undone' is the addition of another eddie e-bow part after the first chorus. the original part (from the original b-side release) is still there, but buried under the new one.

This is the most obvious change but there's also a different general production aesthetic at work in the Lost Dogs remix that's probably easier to discern on headphones - in short, it's more polished than the original (which sounds closer to other Riot Act material). Compared to the b-side mix, Matt's snare is a lot brighter and snappier, the natural room sound has been dialed back, the backing vocals seem a fair bit higher in the mix, etc.

Which other songs on the compilation would you say this about? I am not sure I ever owned the original versions of some of these, so they don't sound "off" to me in the way they might to other people. I had pretty much all the Ten/Vs. era maxi-singles but nothing really beyond those.

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

Which other songs on the compilation would you say this about? I am not sure I ever owned the original versions of some of these, so they don't sound "off" to me in the way they might to other people. I had pretty much all the Ten/Vs. era maxi-singles but nothing really beyond those.

Everything remixed by Brett Eliason (look at the liners) has pretty much been streamlined and modernized with new vocal tracks and additional overdubs, and loud, shiny mixes that strip them of the character of the original sessions they were from.

[LetMeSleep]

That harmonica still boils my blood.

[Mine]

It seems like alot of people around here favor "atmospheric" over "immediate and melodic". I think people mistake the band's preference for the latter as "poor quality" where I believe it's just a choice they don't agree with. I've only listened to a few of these, and that's the conclusion I came to. They're alright, but I see people imposing their desire for atmosphere onto these demos, when the demos are of neither higher or lower quality than the instrumental passages that actually showed up on the record. It's just there for the taking for the listener to insert their desired direction, the one they wished the band would take. I think the whole idea that the band somehow ran out of steam creatively is hogwash. It's just the choices they made. I personally like melodic rock that hits immediately, so I'm cool with what actually came out.

I don't find any of these to be particularly atmospheric. Atmospheric and melodic are far from being mutually exclusive. It might just be my impression but i don't think immediate or as it's more often called here accessible music, is necessarily an issue for most of the people who post here.

[stip]

That harmonica still boils my blood.

I kinda like it. Actually I wish they had recorded it as a full band version. I like the harmonica there.

I know drifting is different from the xmas single version

[Kevin Davis]

Which other songs on the compilation would you say this about? I am not sure I ever owned the original versions of some of these, so they don't sound "off" to me in the way they might to other people. I had pretty much all the Ten/Vs. era maxi-singles but nothing really beyond those.

Everything remixed by Brett Eliason (look at the liners) has pretty much been streamlined and modernized with new vocal tracks and additional overdubs, and loud, shiny mixes that strip them of the character of the original sessions they were from.

Cool. Looks like I need to track down the "I Am Mine" import with "Down" and "Undone." I think I have the originals for the rest.

[Birds in Hell]

Bumping this reply from the previous page for stip's benefit:

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of much of the tinkering that took place on Lost Dogs.

Even in the cases where I don't prefer it, I like that it happened just so the songs are at least slightly different. It still made them feel a bit new.

I like the BRY mix on lost dogs a bit better as well.

Those slight differences bother me more than they probably should as I feel like it can't help but weaken the integrity of the band's catalogue as a whole, B's unawareness that the Lost Dogs version of Undone wasn't the original release of the song serving as a perfect example. For how long is the originally-released version going to be commercially available (is it even now, for that matter)? The same goes for Black Red Yellow, Wash, Footsteps, Dirty Frank etc.

There's a point where what might be considered the "real" (or, at least, original) versions of those songs get supplanted in both commercial availability and general public awareness by arguably inferior alternate takes/mixes and I think that's rather unfortunate.

[Kevin Davis]

That harmonica still boils my blood.

I kinda like it. Actually I wish they had recorded it as a full band version. I like the harmonica

It works well enough musically, and sounds great in the full band versions. I think it's more that overdubbing it onto the original 11 years later is tacky.

[Jorge]

I've never heard the original "Footsteps". I didn't know it didn't have the harmonica.

[LetMeSleep]

I've never heard the original "Footsteps". I didn't know it didn't have the harmonica.

Kids today.

[McParadigm]

The harmonica sounds fine on the full band version. It's fucking terrible on the voice-and-guitar performance.

[LetMeSleep]

The harmonica sounds fine on the full band version. It's fucking terrible on the voice-and-guitar performance.

Yes sir. Spot on.

[ridleybradout]

There's a point where what might be considered the "real" (or, at least, original) versions of those songs get supplanted in both commercial availability and general public awareness by arguably inferior alternate takes/mixes and I think that's rather unfortunate.

U 4eva.


Is there a story why U got changed to You on Lost Dogs?

There are some minor lyrical changes:

Original: "It might be the way you sympathize"
Lost Dogs: "It might be the way you don't sympathize"

I guess it was about his ex and updated?

That or he just wanted his man-crush Matt Cameron to be on it.

[delanoche]

You know what, this rough vocal mix of Life Wasted doesn't sound all that different from how he sings it nowadays.

Ha! I thought the exact same thing. (Though he did nail it in St. Paul the other night...)

[Stardog Champion]

Any chance of getting a little help with this? Thank you in advance if so.

[Habitman]

Not to be awkward or anything but um these leaks... Can someone make them appear in my inbox? Kinda new to this kinda stuff not sure how to ask.

Cheers!!!

[jtmack20]

I think the whole idea that the band somehow ran out of steam creatively is hogwash. It's just the choices they made. .

Totally agree with this statement. These demos again sort of emphasize that. I loved CC and Let it Ride. I also think 2x4 and Only Could in the Sky in particular could have been killer Pearl Jam songs (hoping they eventually became that anyway), but my take is the band- and Eddie in particular - tried to steer the last 3 albums towards straight forward immediate rock music that would play well live, and kept the more atmospheric stuff on the shelf. The history of Pendulum could be more evidence of that. Recorded during Backspacer, but not fitting the melodic, poppy feel of that album, and shelved for 4 years before being released. I hope dearly that Lost Dogs 2 is coming, and includes more gems like Pendulum, Cold Confession, and who knows what else.

[taffer]

Could someone PM me the link to the that stuff

nevermind got it. thanks for discovering!

[Mine]

I think the whole idea that the band somehow ran out of steam creatively is hogwash. It's just the choices they made. .

Totally agree with this statement. These demos again sort of emphasize that. I loved CC and Let it Ride. I also think 2x4 and Only Could in the Sky in particular could have been killer Pearl Jam songs (hoping they eventually became that anyway), but my take is the band- and Eddie in particular - tried to steer the last 3 albums towards straight forward immediate rock music that would play well live, and kept the more atmospheric stuff on the shelf. The history of Pendulum could be more evidence of that. Recorded during Backspacer, but not fitting the melodic, poppy feel of that album, and shelved for 4 years before being released. I hope dearly that Lost Dogs 2 is coming, and includes more gems like Pendulum, Cold Confession, and who knows what else.

The fact that Pendulum is played regularly really weakens your point.

[stip]

I think his point was that the song was initially delayed for those reasons. I'm glad its seen the light of day, and the fact that it's become a live mainstay might mean the band is ready to take another look at the concert viability of these kinds of songs.